What's The Point (of Homebrew)?

What's The Point (of Homebrew)? I just saw a topic that involved wads get removed by the admin. Doesn't the whole idea behind Homebrew revolve around piracy? I see a bunch of topics involving emulation...isn't that piracy? I don't understand the whole Puritan approach. I guarantee that anyone who has Homebrew on their Wii has at least one pirated IP. The Wii isn't even a authorized DVD player so technically even playing movies on it is illegal. Before you can even go online through the Wii don't you have to agree that you won't use any pirated software? So though the rules of this site everyone must only download original Homebrew games, or games ported with with express permission. All of which have completely original music, characters and themes. Who in their right mind would go through the trouble of putting Homebrew on their Wii only to play crappy games like Bubble Pop and pointless time waisting apps like Wii Physics? Don't get me wrong I love having HB on my Wii. To me it's the same as downloading music and movies. I know it's wrong, there's no way I can justify doing it, buy yet I do it anyway. Buy hey, it's free. And at least I'm not lying to myself by saying it's 'legal'.http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18622#msg-18622Sun, 19 Apr 2026 01:37:34 +0200 Phorum 5.2.23 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22326#msg-22326 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22326#msg-22326

Quote
Arikado
Law school called, they want their janitor back ;)

Burn!]]> aujakev OfftopicFri, 26 Jun 2009 18:01:07 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22033#msg-22033 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22033#msg-22033

Quote
steaky1212
My bad, it used to be 5 when I researched it in February

[snip]

Installation and use. ......
You may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each a “Device”) to connect to the Workstation Computer to
[snip]

Also....
[www.nintendo.com]
Wii EULA
Chapter VI: Other
Article 3: Hosting, Intercepting, Emulating, and Reverse-Engineering Prohibited
You may not host, intercept, emulate, or reverse engineer any part of the Wii Console or the Wii Network Service.

On the Microsft part: interesting, I can find that part in my 4 year old XP's EULA, Nad I assume Microsoft does not update EULAs via Windows Update - they couldn't retroactviely force an new contract on you.

Anyway, I do not have to follow Microsofts XP EULA, because it doesn't mean anything in Germany.
Any contract you can only see after buying the product is meanningless over here.

On the Nintendo part: I will look at European EULA, when I have some time left.

I actually thought reverse engineering is always prohibited in the US.]]> daniel_c_w OfftopicWed, 24 Jun 2009 20:41:21 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22000#msg-22000 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,22000#msg-22000
Nintendo says "You can use this, but don't do that"
You say "OK".
Then Nintendo says "If you do that, we'll gonna punish you"
You say "OK, but how?"
They say "Banning you from our online services, whatever"
You say "OK"
They say "Now you scream terrified!!!"
You say "Uhhh, no thanks. Can I play Mario Kart online now?"

That's it. With an EULA, they have the legal right to enforce a punishment if you break the rules, but the "punishment" can't do anything that may be considered illegal.]]> DanielHueho OfftopicWed, 24 Jun 2009 17:48:41 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,21996#msg-21996 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,21996#msg-21996

Quote
steaky1212
Also....
[www.nintendo.com]
Wii EULA
Chapter VI: Other
Article 3: Hosting, Intercepting, Emulating, and Reverse-Engineering Prohibited
You may not host, intercept, emulate, or reverse engineer any part of the Wii Console or the Wii Network Service.

Meaning that ALL work on wii homebrew, including the work with interfacing wiimote with pc etc, is in violation of Nintendo's EULA.

Now I dont know what the punishment is for violating an EULA but I would have thought Nintendo is well within its rights to "brick" every console with any homebrew running on it...

Please read through a topic before your post in it. It has already been realized (or at least I thought it had) through ambiguous discussion that Nintendo does not make software laws. Governments do. To that end, The EULA doesn't mean anything. Also, for Nintendo to intentionally perform the malicious act of bricking a console because it had Wii homebrew on it would be illegal. Emphasis on intentional and malicious.]]> Arikado OfftopicWed, 24 Jun 2009 17:20:35 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,21970#msg-21970 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,21970#msg-21970

Quote
daniel_c_w
Which Microsoft product has that rule in its EULA?
Neither Windows 95, 98, 98SE (all german) or Windows XP (german, and an english one) say that.
I scannend the XP EULA for "peer", "five" and "5". No match

My bad, it used to be 5 when I researched it in February, but they've obviously increased the limit
From [download.microsoft.com]

Installation and use. ......
You may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each a “Device”) to connect to the Workstation Computer to
utilize the services of the Product solely for File and Print services, Internet Information Services, and remote
access (including connection sharing and telephony services). The ten connection maximum includes any indirect
connections made through “multiplexing” or other software or hardware which pools or aggregates connections.
Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and Remote Desktop features described
below, you may not use the Product to permit any Device to use, access, display or run other executable software
residing on the Workstation Computer, nor may you permit any Device to use, access, display, or run the Product
or Product’s user interface, unless the Device has a separate license for the Product.

Also....
[www.nintendo.com]
Wii EULA
Chapter VI: Other
Article 3: Hosting, Intercepting, Emulating, and Reverse-Engineering Prohibited
You may not host, intercept, emulate, or reverse engineer any part of the Wii Console or the Wii Network Service.

Meaning that ALL work on wii homebrew, including the work with interfacing wiimote with pc etc, is in violation of Nintendo's EULA.

Now I dont know what the punishment is for violating an EULA but I would have thought Nintendo is well within its rights to "brick" every console with any homebrew running on it...

Quote
daniel_c_w
I do not realy know anything about the UK's copyright and intellectual copyright laws, but I am about 75% sure, the following applies: You are ALLOWED, but NOT ENTITLED TO create as much copies as you like for yourself, as long as own the original. You may not be allowed to circumvent copy-protection mechanisms.
In your example: you can record TV, as long as it is for yourself and you are not using a way, that is blocked by copy protection. For example BBC1 is unprotected via satelite, so you can record it's datastream.

[www.copyrightaware.co.uk] point6
[copyrightservice.co.uk]
Ok, so that has changed too, but I was under the impression that you were only allowed to receive the broadcast.
Either way, they seem to suggest that you are only allowed one copy and only if it is for the purpose of viewing at a more convenient time]]> steaky1212 OfftopicWed, 24 Jun 2009 12:45:34 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19699#msg-19699 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19699#msg-19699

Quote
badbob
Its fair use:
[en.wikipedia.org])

A fair use clause does not exist in every kind of copyright law.

And I agree, that SMW should not count as a parody.
To use the quote from the linked Wikipedia article:

Quote

"is the use of some elements of a prior author's composition to create a new one that, at least in part, comments on that author's works"

A fail to see, how SMW has the purpose to comments on Super Mario and it's elements.

I'd say, SMW is a persiflage, at best.

Personal question to all who like SMW: would you still play it, if it has a new skin?]]> daniel_c_w OfftopicSun, 07 Jun 2009 16:13:22 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19697#msg-19697 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19697#msg-19697

Quote
Kage52124
either the damage it was doing to PS3 game sales, which is where Sony makes up the difference against a loss for the PS3 hardware,

Wouldn't PS2 games help Sony to finance the PS3 as well?

One could also argue, that removing the PS2 backwards compability mightb hurt the PS3.
My personal theory is, that many people bought a PS3 over a 360, because they could catch up on the PS2 library

Quote
Kage52124
or to help bring the PS3 production price down, which as far as I'm aware is still selling for a loss right?

I think so.]]> daniel_c_w OfftopicSun, 07 Jun 2009 16:04:11 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19651#msg-19651 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19651#msg-19651why they aren't considered a parody. I think it's hilarious watching an egg pounce on the mighty Bahamut :-P.]]> Kage52124 OfftopicSun, 07 Jun 2009 08:01:45 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19596#msg-19596 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19596#msg-19596 agoaj OfftopicSun, 07 Jun 2009 00:30:52 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19550#msg-19550 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19550#msg-19550

Quote
Super Mario War use Mario who is copyrighted...

You have the right to make a parody without paying money.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Its fair use:
[en.wikipedia.org])]]> badbob OfftopicSat, 06 Jun 2009 17:06:29 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19504#msg-19504 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19504#msg-19504
I so did not know the acronym for IIRC (if I recall correctly)...all y'all and your internet lingo!]]> Kage52124 OfftopicSat, 06 Jun 2009 06:58:13 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19482#msg-19482 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19482#msg-19482

Quote
steaky1212
How many people have read the full EULA of the Wii - if such a thing exists.

Me, at least twice, the european one.

Quote
steaky1212
If anyone reads Microsofts EULA (...)
They also say that no more than 5 pc's can access your PC at any one point in time (p2p goes out the window then - even if its legal content)

Which Microsoft product has that rule in its EULA?
Neither Windows 95, 98, 98SE (all german) or Windows XP (german, and an english one) say that.
I scannend the XP EULA for "peer", "five" and "5". No match

Quote
steaky1212
Saying all that... theres loads of things that people do without realising it.... like recording stuff of the TV. In the UK you only pay for the broadcast, and so you are allowed to receive the stream and not record it. I dont know how VCR and PVR got around this...
Maybe it is a case of "Its only illegal if you get caught"

I do not realy know anything about the UK's copyright and intellectual copyright laws, but I am about 75% sure, the following applies: You are ALLOWED, but NOT ENTITLED TO create as much copies as you like for yourself, as long as own the original. You may not be allowed to circumvent copy-protection mechanisms.
In your example: you can record TV, as long as it is for yourself and you are not using a way, that is blocked by copy protection. For example BBC1 is unprotected via satelite, so you can record it's datastream.

Quote
Kage52124
actually causing Sony more harm than good in that people would buy the system and then not buy PS3 games, but PS2 games instead.

I wouldn't say that is neccessarely true. That statement wasn't proven at all, IIRC. Also keep in mind, that the PS3 launch lineup was lackluster]]> daniel_c_w OfftopicSat, 06 Jun 2009 01:31:46 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19469#msg-19469 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19469#msg-19469Some of you may find this interesting.]]> PhoenixTank OfftopicSat, 06 Jun 2009 00:15:43 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19443#msg-19443 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19443#msg-19443
If it is the case that most Wii homebrew programmers simply enjoyed the challenge of making these systems work, then wouldn't it be enough that they succeeded? They could have very well made these amazing programs and then chose to never release them since the only initial interest was in the challenge. From then on out it would almost seem that there's a social aspect to these releases, for example, "Hey look what I did! Isn't it awesome!" Of course one retort to this would be that the end users like myself become beta testers to help improve the code further with bug reports:-P.

Quote
ekeeke
...tolerated...

Very important distinction in regards to opinions and site-by-site morals. Especially in relation to ROMs and such, emulation was probably much less harmful until systems began incorporating 'backward compatibility' into their consoles. The PS2 and 3 are both capable of playing PS1 games, and the original PS3 could run PS2 games, actually causing Sony more harm than good in that people would buy the system and then not buy PS3 games, but PS2 games instead. It is unprecedented that a form of emulation done by a company actually harmed itself, but that was the case here I would think.

I would also say that responsibility lies with the end user. As much as we would like to blame the gun manufacturer for the child who shot up their school, too many other circumstances between said manufacturer and the child exist to blame solely one entity. Due to this, the responsibility must lie with the individual or group at the end of the chain. I imagine this is the same philosophy held by all programmers in the various aspects of private development. The Team set up the circumstances that allowed for eventual piracy, but as they themselves weren't pirates, that may be enough. I suppose the same could be said for Waninkoko's applications like the USB Loader, he simply made a tool, it's up to all of us how to use it.]]> Kage52124 OfftopicFri, 05 Jun 2009 21:56:44 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19397#msg-19397 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,19397#msg-19397
How many people have read the full EULA of the Wii - if such a thing exists.

I only bring it up as people are throwing around reverse-engineer and "i paid for it therefore it is mine".

If anyone reads Microsofts EULA they say that reverse-engineering/disassembling is against the EULA.
They also say that no more than 5 pc's can access your PC at any one point in time (p2p goes out the window then - even if its legal content)

Its surprising that Nintendo do not also have strict rules associated with it...

Either way, what is the punishment for breaking an EULA, and surely Nintendo could see what channels are installed and stop access to internet channel... this obviously means that you gotta update the Wii software ( which people using homebrew rarely do)

Thats about it...

Saying all that... theres loads of things that people do without realising it.... like recording stuff of the TV. In the UK you only pay for the broadcast, and so you are allowed to receive the stream and not record it. I dont know how VCR and PVR got around this...
Maybe it is a case of "Its only illegal if you get caught"]]> steaky1212 OfftopicFri, 05 Jun 2009 15:54:46 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18877#msg-18877 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18877#msg-18877

Quote
bushing
I think this pretty much sums it up. There are plenty of other message boards out there where they have entire subforums devoted to backuploaders. The focus of WiiBrew.org (and by extension, this forum) has always been homebrew development. Most of the talk here should be about actual coding or reverse-engineering, not tech support, etc. We allow some of that anyway because it's good for the community, but even that generates a lot of noise.

We define some rules here to try to keep this a useful place for discussion. If some find those rules too restrictive, there are plenty of other places to talk.

Thats okay.
In the end, this is your community and you can define whatever rules you want, even if they contradict in itself. And I respect that.

I know that there are other forums dedicated to backup loaders. However, the documentation there is horribly unprofessional (or in foreign languages) and the installation procedures are unsafe and questionable.

Thats why I wished that the professional homebrew community (= wiibrew, hackmii) would make something like that.

But ah well, you can't have everything. ;)]]> SpyroDragon OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 22:30:30 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18850#msg-18850 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18850#msg-18850
You all have a good point: Giving freedom to any system generates potential for abuse. When security measures put in place to stop piracy are broken, it's very easy for piracy to come about.

However, it's not really Team Twiizers' or (most) developers' intentions to enable or support piracy. Most of them do it out of an intrinsic desire to hack, code, or develop. Others simply like to contribute, creating useful tools others will enjoy, or helping out a Wiki or Forum. All of these generate experience for the the individuals, rather than any sort of external reward or final goal that is sought.

Consider the emulator writers. They've spent years working on reverse engineering other platforms, writing interpreters, coding software implementations of hardware functions. In particular, the tehpola and emu_kidid have been working on a dynamic recompiler in addition to all of this. The difficulty of these tasks, combined with the amount of time they spend, would score them a very high salary in the computer science field--were they doing this for someone. If they are doing this to the end of "FULL SPEED N64 EMULATION ON WII!!112," then this would seem to be rather unbalanced. They're essentially spending tens of thousands of dollars of their own time to... play video games from one console on another console. It would seem much more cost effective to just buy the virtual console titles, or use a different system to play their games. Sparse donations can not make up this margin.

The emulator developers, just like everyone else in the homebrew field, are doing this to gain knowledge and experience.

From the perspective of the user, it seems like all of these people are just pirates or idiots who think people really want to play WiiPhysics (plug: great app, great job) or whatever else they've concocted.
However, as you can see, most of these developers are doing this out of self interest in the field.
I've spoken or worked with many of the developers in the Wii homebrew field, and a majority of those involved with Team Twiizers. I've not met a single one who would rationalize their actions through talk of crusading for "open software" or "combating high prices." They all just have the skills, interest, and motivation to apply and expand knowledge through their works in homebrew.

Now, we could go in to why console homebrew is such a popular target for these people, but that's driving away from the point.

I'd just like you all to remember that these developers are working hard out of their own self-interest for their own enjoyment and betterment. It's wonderful that you can all benefit from it, but don't forget that it's probably not done based on your or anyone's interest or benefit other than the developers.]]> tona OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 20:39:51 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18790#msg-18790 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18790#msg-18790

Quote
ekeeke

Quote

Invalid argument, imo.

A lot of people (including me!) would like to use a Wii backup loader for perfectly legal reasons, such as creating legal backups of their expensive bought games, to spare the original disc / case from scratches / dirt / damage.

- As well as sparing the Wii's DVD drive to prevent wearout, noise, heat or to keep playing the rightfully owned games when the drive is broken.

then use it, what's preventing you of doing it ?
just don't use this place to talk about it

I think this pretty much sums it up. There are plenty of other message boards out there where they have entire subforums devoted to backuploaders. The focus of WiiBrew.org (and by extension, this forum) has always been homebrew development. Most of the talk here should be about actual coding or reverse-engineering, not tech support, etc. We allow some of that anyway because it's good for the community, but even that generates a lot of noise.

We define some rules here to try to keep this a useful place for discussion. If some find those rules too restrictive, there are plenty of other places to talk.]]> bushing OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 12:56:56 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18788#msg-18788 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18788#msg-18788

Quote

Invalid argument, imo.

A lot of people (including me!) would like to use a Wii backup loader for perfectly legal reasons, such as creating legal backups of their expensive bought games, to spare the original disc / case from scratches / dirt / damage.

- As well as sparing the Wii's DVD drive to prevent wearout, noise, heat or to keep playing the rightfully owned games when the drive is broken.

then use it, what's preventing you of doing it ?
just don't use this place to talk about it

Quote

Not to mention that legally and even morally there is no difference between stealing a brand new game and stealing an old game.

the thing is, morale is a matter of personnal judgement
you have your own, I have my own, wiibrew has its own
still don't see my point ?

Quote

Nintendo is still making money by selling Super Mario Bros. 3 over Virtual Console too, you know?

this is still about morale: I know that VC titles and official emulation make emulators on the Wii even more on a "grey line" and I remember having discussion with softdev regarding continuing releasing them or not, however I personnaly still think that providing improved and alternated way to play these old pieces of history should be tolerated ...]]> ekeeke OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 12:04:31 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18787#msg-18787 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18787#msg-18787

Quote
ekeeke
2/ emulators are tolerated over ISO/Backup loaders because the usage is not the same, emulators are most often used to replay old/unproduced games when isos are just ways to easily play recent games without paying anything.

Invalid argument, imo.

A lot of people (including me!) would like to use a Wii backup loader for perfectly legal reasons, such as creating legal backups of their expensive bought games, to spare the original disc / case from scratches / dirt / damage.

- As well as sparing the Wii's DVD drive to prevent wearout, noise, heat or to keep playing the rightfully owned games when the drive is broken.

Not to mention that legally and even morally there is no difference between stealing a brand new game and stealing an old game.

Nintendo is still making money by selling Super Mario Bros. 3 over Virtual Console too, you know?]]> SpyroDragon OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 11:13:55 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18784#msg-18784 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18784#msg-18784

Quote

Why is this way of pirating fine but not the other?

1/ emulators are legal to host, not pirated/injected VC channels neither copyrighted ROM files
2/ emulators are tolerated over ISO/Backup loaders because the usage is not the same, emulators are most often used to replay old/unproduced games when isos are just ways to easily play recent games without paying anything. Yes, against the law, stealing a NES game and a Wii game is strictly the same but the former is just more tolerated in common opinion for obvious reasons. And at the end, it's the owners of the website to decide what they are supporting or not.

It seems that the main issue is that "pirates" feel hated for what they are doing and don't understand why.
Seriously, you are not hated for doing illegal stuff, you are hated for coming on site like this, not reading the rules, asking for ways to load "backups", critizing homebrew that don't go the way they should in your opinion, etc
Don't be childish and accept the fact that what you are doing is not the way every people want to use homebrew for. If you want to be assured/congratulated/helped , it's the wrong place, that's all...]]> ekeeke OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 10:07:21 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18770#msg-18770 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18770#msg-18770I'm glad someone made a thread like this.

For me, Wiibrew / Hackmii / The "good" Homebrew Scene (no offense to anyone - I'm a big fan of everyones great and clean work) have a clear case of double standards regarding legality / piracy. - Where it starts and where it stops.

For example, pirating new Wii games (lets take Mario Galaxy as an example) and Virtual Console titles for N64 / SNES / NES are not welcome here.

But Homebrew Emulators for N64 / SNES / NES are perfectly fine?
Those are documented everywhere. In the Wiki - posts are allowed about it on the forums, they are downloadable through the Homebrew browser etc.

Why is this way of pirating fine but not the other?

Sure - if you already own the Super Nintendo or N64 game its fine. But doesn't the same apply to newer games? Running backups of them beeing fine, as long as you own them?

Why the hate against only one (possible) kind of piracy?

Personally, I don't pirate anything Wii related. But I would, if there were safe and easy ways to do so. (As safe and easy as to install Homebrew right now.)
Why? The same reason why I download music: I don't have the money to buy it.

From what I have seen on other forums, nothing looked safe enough to use or required old system menu versions or something else questionable, not worth risking to brick my Wii.]]> SpyroDragon OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 05:24:41 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18757#msg-18757 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18757#msg-18757A lot of us are passionate about keeping within the realms of the law, and it sucks to have work undermined and labelled as illegal. Whether offence was intended or not, the grouping of homebrew with piracy is going to hit a nerve with many, especially here.]]> PhoenixTank OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 02:31:08 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18741#msg-18741 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18741#msg-18741
1. I know his name, i just didn't want to write it down completely,because he isn't the only one behind piracy...i guess saying "the coders XXX" would be more appropriate :P

2. I already mentioned in my post above that there are enough legal ways of bricking a wii!

@ Arikado:

I really didn't want to accuse team twiizers of being responsible for piracy, but this IS a problem and in my opinion we can't just ignore it...well but since this seems to be a topic well discussed there is no need to go into further detail :)

btw. you didn't fix WaxyPumpkin72's quotation right xD]]> Sephiroth OfftopicMon, 01 Jun 2009 00:41:33 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18729#msg-18729 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18729#msg-18729
Please leave BootMii out of this. It's by far the most innocent piece of Twiizer Homebrew to accuse for indirect piracy. I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's an extremely weak one. You even point out the flaws in it yourself.

Also, indirectly accusing Twiizers for piracy is a topic that has been discussed to death on everywhere, even on sites beyond this one. My response to these accusations is always what you said in the last paragraph of your post.]]> Arikado OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 23:43:34 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18728#msg-18728 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18728#msg-18728

Quote
mahern4
I'm not sure where everybody's from but in the US and the EU you're not allowed to use characters made by other companies without their permission. It doesn't matter if it's hand drawn or user made, you're still not allowed to do it.....at least in the US and EU

What? Are you saying that its illegal for me to draw a picture of mario? Or do i misunderstand you? Do you mean i can't draw a picture of mario and redistribute it? I don't understand. :P

Quote
Sephiroth
one of the great features of bootmii is the ability to restore a wii,if bricked...but the most common case of bricking a wii is because of risky software like WaniXXXX's and these apps are most likely for pirating!

I know there are thousands of other methods to brick a wii and that bootmii is not only for restoring a bricked wii, but team twiizers do help pirates with their software...

Here are some ways to brick your wii that are legal:

Basically all of the titles under System Tools

And just so u know, his name is Waninkoko, so when you put WaniXXXX, you really mean WaniXXXXX. :P

Edit: sorry, couldn't get the quotes to work

Edit2: Oh yeah, trying to pwn Twiizers is a bad idea lol.

Arikado Edit: Fixed your quotes :)]]> WaxyPumpkin72 OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 23:41:47 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18726#msg-18726 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18726#msg-18726

Quote
mahern4
However, illegal acts are still taking place;
[...]
Running game's on Wii without, again, permission by Nintendo.

The law does not require Nintendo's permission.

Quote

Wii is not a authorized DVD player. DVD is an intellectual property and not an open source platform.

No, DVD is a proprietary standard. The easiest way to implement support for it is to pay the DVD-CCA for a copy of the specifications. If you do that, you have to follow certain rules. That's the only "authorization" -- a contract by which you gain information from the DVD-CCA in exchange for following some rules.

If you can reverse-engineer the necessary information without signing a contract with the DVD-CCA, you can do whatever you want (setting aside DMCA issues, which don't really apply here).

Quote

Lastly and most importantly, the Wii is NOT an open source platform. Unlike a computer where you can pretty much install anything you want, the Wii was created to have apps and games of their choosing on it. The Wii, and all other video game systems, was made to play their games. If you want a new game you have to pay $50 for it. You have to pay to play, in which Nintendo gets their cut. With this money Nintendo and other publishers create new games and so the system goes. Nothing is free.

I already paid Nintendo $250 for my Wii. That's the only money the law entitles them do. They have the right to try to extract money from me in other ways, but no legal right to succeed.

Quote

So yeah, I'm sure you're rolling your eyes thinking that these things are no big deal. Well their still illegal. Is it alright to shrug off one law and be strongly against another?

No, I'm rolling my eyes at your poor spelling and your attempts to use emulator issues and your poor understanding of the law to accuse me of hypocrisy.]]> bushing OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 23:28:02 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18723#msg-18723 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18723#msg-18723

most people who use homebrew, also use it for pirating wii games.and even if team twiizers doesn't support piracy directly; the pirates are surely glad for apps like bootmii:

one of the great features of bootmii is the ability to restore a wii,if bricked...but the most common case of bricking a wii is because of risky software like WaniXXXX's and these apps are most likely for pirating!

I know there are thousands of other methods to brick a wii and that bootmii is not only for restoring a bricked wii, but team twiizers do help pirates with their software...

i guess it is nearly impossible to design apps to only work with wii's not using pirated games,so this is indeed a huge problem!

I know the opinion of team twiizers about piracy and I know the forum rules and i do respect them, but honestly, why would it be a problem to discuss such a critical topic on this forum??

and sure, there are many homebrew apps which are VERY useful (gecko os,mplayer) and perfectly legal, but (at least I see this often) many new comers to homebrew immediately ask questions like "how do I play "backups" without a modchip? :O" and without team twiizers this would not be possible...and NO I'm not accusing them for the piracy-problem,since other coders are much more responsible for that, but they certainly built the platform for piracy.

this topic is comparable to modchips...in most countries modchips are legal,but it will void your wiis warranty (just like the homebrewchannel e.g.),but most people "misuse" them for piracy...

in the end every coder is resonsible for his/her own apps and ONLY for his apps, but there is (or at least should be) the moral problem because by enabling homebrew for wii,it was pretty clear that piracy will flourish as well.]]> Sephiroth OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 23:18:49 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18707#msg-18707 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18707#msg-18707
the thing is that THIS website does not support piracy of Wii software, this a decided rule and everyone coming here should at least respect that. If you feel it's too puritan or hypocritical for you, there are tons of website out there accumulating hits by providing tutorials and applications to pirate Wii games, really nobody care about what you want to do with your Wii, just don't come here to talk about it...

Now about the endless "is it more legal or not" debate, I would not say much more than emulators or DVD player are 100% legal on their own (as long as they don't use any copyrighted code), it's their use that can be illegal. Off course, they are as much legal as "backup" or USB loaders but the difference is about what you tolerate on YOUR website and what you don't tolerate : remember the MAME team refusing to emulate game that weren't old enough ? that's pretty similar, call it how you want "morality" or "hypocisy", it's up to people running a project or website to decide, not you, even if you naively think internet should be "free", it's not :-)

Finally, by critisizing the quality of some homebrew release, you are missing the whole point of homebrew: it is not designed to give people the ability to "play cool stuff fo free", it's all about fun for developpers to run their own software on an entertaining system and hackers to reverse-engineering a new unknown hardware. Maybe Nintendo don't like it, maybe you will lose your warranty for what but there is no way you will get sued for that (otherwise, they would have done it long time ago,believe me), because it's not illegal , at least in my country, to run his own stuff on a proprietary IP.]]> ekeeke OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 20:39:12 +0200 http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18705#msg-18705 Re: What's The Point (of Homebrew)?http://forum.wiibrew.org/read.php?14,18622,18705#msg-18705

Quote
mahern4
There's no reason to insult me by calling me a janitor or a failure. I thought this side of the scene was supposed to be a little more civil.

We are more civil. Please don't let my poor mannerisms frighten you away. I'll admit that I was not on my best behavior as I should have been. And from now on, I promise to treat you with more respect. I do regret some of my wording, as I was typing quickly, and would always rather teach someone like you than (for lack of a better term) "school you".

My 'threats' were actually empty though since, while I can lock the topic, I'm not going to until an admin gets here. And only an admin can ban you, I was merely letting you know what could happen.

Please continue your discussion if you wish :)]]> Arikado OfftopicSun, 31 May 2009 20:30:39 +0200