Game patching idea?

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:01:59 +0200

Just some extra details:

The occurrence of dol loading is found in most if not all wii games that have several dols to load examples being mortal kombat armageddon, metroid prime wii make and cod3, the technical term for this is IOS Reload.

Games which use non-nintendo hardware may also use this technique, apparently boogie is supposed to be a tri-dol game but i cannot confirm that myself.

IOS Reload can cause problems in homebrew apps

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:51:44 +0200

Quote
HyperHacker
Pirate loaders already intercept disc access and read the data from another source instead. Patching could work exactly the same, except you'd only redirect for certain regions of certain files, and store only the modified regions on the external device. (Though for efficiency's sake you might just keep it in RAM instead of reading every time.)

Thats what i said!

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:31:47 +0200

Yeah, that's what we're doing, with slight differences. The RAM is nowhere near big enough to keep more than a very small fix in memory, and if you have a fix that small you might as well just load it with Gecko, which loads values to the RAM anyway!

Re: Game patching idea?

HyperHacker — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:09:09 +0200

Quote
SifJar
You're right. But discs cant be patched, and the Wii isnt designed to patch games on the fly, so he suggested that the game could be copied to a storage device (i.e. a hard drive) then the game could be patched there, and the disc is just used to launch it from there.

Pirate loaders already intercept disc access and read the data from another source instead. Patching could work exactly the same, except you'd only redirect for certain regions of certain files, and store only the modified regions on the external device. (Though for efficiency's sake you might just keep it in RAM instead of reading every time.)

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:42:41 +0200

It's not that we can't, it's just that it's I don't see the need for it at this time and we'd be more productive to ignore it for now and finish up the core functionality first.

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:05:00 +0200

i suggested we store the patched version to reduce the complications of run-time patching, but from the manner of your post it seems that we cant do that?

Sorry if i am pushy on the pathing thing but from what you have said it seems almost certain it can be done through your work

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:24:14 +0200

Except for the dol swapping and loading through the disc channel, yeah that's pretty much what we're doing. We'll load the game through the patching program, because it's well, easier. Because of the way IOS patching works, we're interrupting the calls as they write to memory, so you can't "pre-patch" games before they're loaded. At this time, we have no need to patch dols or any other actual code, simply content. It'd be easy enough to write in yourself though: "Ifends with , do . Else continue as normal". Alternatively, you could ask the PPC frontend itself to nab the resouce from the disc and patch it before the game begins loading, but that would be more difficult for a variety of reasons.

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:35:13 +0200

Tempus here's a legal idea,

user puts in disc
loads patcher
patcher checks disc for validity, checks game id for compatibility and available patches
if patches exist continue else exit
check patch details (what is patched, the main.dol, an image or a seperate executable)
if an image is "patched" or updated, use a patched ios to forcefully load that image instead of the one on the disc when the original is requested
if a .dol is to be patched, extract the one of the disc and store it on a device, then patch it (legal since its only a specific resource, done directly via the wii, the disc is still required, no distribution)
to load the updated game, disc is inserted, go to disc channel, patched ios redirects resource loading
if disc channel does not work, use a custom channel

it lacks detail but by lacking detail i was able to make it simple to understand, i know ios patching will be hard but its probably more legal than patching the game iso and then loading it via the usb loader

also, nintendo actually lack programming innovation, the wii concept was designed by satoru and a few other producers, the programmers just the made a system for the ideas

(btw i believe this proves it slightly -> [hackmii.com] if the programmers were "innovative" then would they have not said "hey, maybe we could..." or "maybe that could be..." not dissing nintendo just saying they need changes)

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:15:32 +0200

Last link was missing the file name. Oops. New Link: http://zero4.higashinoeden.com/Developer/PatchProxy.zip

Re: Game patching idea?

I.R.on — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:09:26 +0200

I get "Error 403 - Forbidden" for the link you gave for the sources... As for bmg files, actually I figured out the easy one just staring at the files, unfortunately I don't have a usb gecko so can't do memory dumps and such...

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:41:22 +0200

We need absoultely 0 help with language patching, or actual game modification, translation or anything else. That's what we've been working on for the last few months, and it's almost done! We'd just like to have a patching method with a legal option. That is what we need help with. The FAT code from WiiGator's cBoot2 looks exactly like what we needed, since we already had sector write. now we just need to learn how it works, port it into our code properly, write our interrupt modules and then attach a nice front end. Check out the code up top, the part we need to finish modifying is libproxiios, and then with luck everything will work!

Even if the Metroid guy did do substantial translating, A) the Metroid games were GC ports, and B) Fatal Frame 4 uses unique filetypes which are only vaguely similar to regular Wii formats (with the exception of images, which are modified TPL files... though we didn't learn this until later.)

What this thread is about is not translating games, but the way to load patched files into the game on-the-fly, that's what we're up to here! This is not just for translation, but like I said, could be used for glitch fixes, texture hacks, custom background music, mod scenarios, etc.

WiiPower: Out of curiosity, I'd also like to hear how the boot.dol replacement works. I'm assuming it modifies the apploader? How does it manage to get the file properly from SD? Not necessarily the path we're taking, but if this should somehow not work out well near the end, I'd like to have an alternate route!

I.R.on: Take a look at the code briefly and post if you want to continue. As for the bmg's, if they aren't intelligible after staring at them for a while, load the game with your gecko and find them in memory. Having a list of offsets helps a lot in determining structure, and then values can be easily mapped to formatting and encoding types using your head a little. Keep in mind the Wii uses big endian a lot, but occasionally little endian as well - you'll get there.

Anyone else: take a look at the source code from the last post. If you're interested, message me. I've only been developing on the Wii for 2 months, and 90% has been reverse-engineering file formats, so I'd appreciate expertise - especially if you know about IOS patching for functionality!

Re: Game patching idea?

I.R.on — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:33:21 +0200

By the way concerning translation stuff, I'm still stuck at reversing bmg files... The ones used by System Menu were easy but can't figure out the ones used by Wiifit and I'm too lazy to try to figure out using replace & test method... any suggestions and findings are welcome..

@Tempus : The idea is great btw, I'd like to contribute considering currently there is no (and possibly will not be any in the near future) games in my native language and I'd like to give a little present to my fellow citizens.

Re: Game patching idea?

WiiPower — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:58:40 +0200

Quote
SteelSLasher
For language patching i think i know someone who can help you, but he is on a forum which supports wads and wii roms so its a bit iffy.

Basically, this guy was able to patch a japanese copy of the metroid 1+2 wii control game so all the strings where in english (no translations of pictures), apparently it works great and with no bugs or glitches so it might help to contact him

Edited Out

but until you guys finish anything we cant really do much, i'd help but right now i am working on my own project

Patching Metroid Prime 1+2 to english, german, french and ... is very easy. The games already contain those languages, and the patch is just changing which language to use.

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:08:50 +0200

For language patching i think i know someone who can help you, but he is on a forum which supports wads and wii roms so its a bit iffy.

Basically, this guy was able to patch a japanese copy of the metroid 1+2 wii control game so all the strings where in english (no translations of pictures), apparently it works great and with no bugs or glitches so it might help to contact him

Edited Out

but until you guys finish anything we cant really do much, i'd help but right now i am working on my own project

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:57:15 +0200

daniel_c_w: Haven't atually done any bugfixes or removal or warning screens yet. All we've done is replace existing content with translation versions inside the in-house RSL files. We've been steadily working since my first post and we've decoded everything essential (text and images, font, event calls, etc...) and this is what we are putting in at this time. I was only talking possibilities - since this would allow for those things if someone would be interested.

WiiPower: we're actually looking at Softchips code a little. While getting bannerbomb to load gecko was an issue, the ability to use this on more games than just one without complicated hacks was also a consideration and a temporary IOS patch is easier in this way. That said, I was planning on using the Gecko DVD loading code as reference for my frontend, since it would make things easier. So I might take you up on that offer. I plan on releasing it open source (at least the frontend) - backup users can already run games with modifications/patches via WiiScrubber, so it's not as if this benefits them in any way. Hell, that's how I test out the modifications we've done!

I.R.on: Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

SteelSlasher: Already have devkitARM installed. as for using this to fix FUBARed games, I'm all for it. Bug fixing is never easy though, especially when you've only got the compiled code to work from. The game I'm making this for, Fatal Frame 4, has some bugs - I'm not certain they'd be easy to fix, it's last on my list. Most games contain a separate file for controls - fixing some broken controls might be possible with testing. If you have any ideas then by all means.

I've uploaded what we've got to here. Most of this is thanks to other people. I can post an explanation if requested.

For an example of why we're making this patch, you can check out the translation project site here or the forum (with more actual progress info - but no tech stuff).

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:35:50 +0200

If we can make a model or system which can allow simple patching of a game and then find a FUBARed game to patch, record footage of the game patched and unpatched, we might then be able to pull some support from bigger people

Tempus, the DS has an ARM cpu so maybe looking at devkitarm might help you

Re: Game patching idea?

I.R.on — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:46:16 +0200

Already a bunch of stuff implemented fat in ios and they have the sources... namely

1. Bootmii's Mini
2. Wiigator's nifty boot2 hack (http://www.gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=156199)

Not quite sure about the first but I'm sure for the latter...

Re: Game patching idea?

WiiPower — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:23:23 +0200

Did you try to move the entry point of Gecko OS to make it compatible with bannerbomb? That would be my 1st guess why it does not work from it.

Also, Gecko OS contains lots of code not dvd loading related. If you need any help with cutting the unnecessary code out of it, i may be of some help. Another option would be of course to use SoftChip's code.

If you want to make to closed source in order to prevent that your code is used to play backups, ask Nuke if he permits you to release your Gecko OS mod as closed source. I'm almost sure he would allow it.

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:14:09 +0200

Great work :D

If none of you know assembly, how did you achieve things like surpressing the warning screen or bug fixes?

Didn't you create a thread about the project, when you started it?
IIRC it was about a file format.
Great to see you haven't given up.

Re: Game patching idea?

Tempus — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:07:02 +0200

I am actually working on a patching method as a component to a translation of a game (Fatal Frame 4). We originally started out using GeckoOS to modify the filesystem loader, but a) none of our three team members knew assembly, b) the filesystem modification code wasn't very portable or easily reusable, and c) GeckoOS had problems with bannerbomb. Since I want to use this on even unmodified Wii's (some people have some sort of homebrew prejudice), that wasn't really acceptable. Since then I've moved to a temporary IOS patch which interrupts the dev/di calls and replaces them with SD calls when necessary. I've got partial code, which will install the IOS, but I'm having a problem because the IOS uses the ARM processor and we don't have any SD FAT filesystem code for it, so we need to parse the filesystem into sectors and then pass it to where the IOS can read it somehow. After that, just the compare disc filesystem to SD filesystem and the call interrupts themselves need to be written. Right now they're just empty modules.

Some applications include translation patches (us), bug/glitch fixes, texture hacks, custom music, removal of the Nintendo warning screen, and various other mods. If anyone wants to check out what we've got so far (most of it by Aaron/AerialX), then I'll pass it to you via e-mail or post a link here. I'm the coder on our team with the most Wii experience, and I only started three months ago (in the middle of doing everything else) so it's a bit of a struggle and I'd appreciate an experienced Wii hand or even just another eager coder to help us finish up the last bits.

The goal of the project is to make an easy patching method for any game on any system for any purpose. We intend to attach a simple frontend to region free and check for physical disk loading, and allow minor content management. Flexible, simple and powerful are the key goals! Post here if you've got any ideas or would like to help us out, or e-mail me at Tempus@inbox.com. If there's interest I'll keep the thread posted with updates until it's done!

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:50:22 +0200

I like to add to your list, that some Virtual console games we're updated.
The user has to download the update on his own, and there is not even a notification, but
IIRC it was mentionend in the front page of the shop channel, once.

Re: Game patching idea?

I.R.on — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:25:58 +0200

There is one catch in all this patching business.. security...

Nintendo can't simply put the patches or the new content into a harddisk or sd card... it should be secured like savegames for modification... though it will increase the overall complexity of the job, it's still doable...

But there is already a mechanism that can be used to do this thing, downloadable contents that is... a game can be coded to accept certain dlc's to patch itself... though this can not be used for games that doesn't have such patching implementation in them...

And, I agree with WiiPower, if Nintendo had cared for patching the games they would have done that from start... This is not their style... Here is the reasons
1. Patching will confuse people
2. Supporting patching means accepting to fail from the start
3. This is the most important possibly, patching means more people will be aware of a small glitch otherwise taken note by a small number...
4. As introducing new features, they already do it either by making a new product or having games use DLC, note that as I said it can be used for patching but Nintendo didn't do it...

Re: Game patching idea?

WiiPower — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:30:55 +0200

Quote
SteelSLasher
Quote
daniel_c_w
*cough* GeckoOS *cough*
Last time i checked, every Wii sold comes with wii sports not the HBC, and some games do not work with gecko os, an example being my copy of MoHH2 pal,

since region free isnt needed we only need the patching system not the region check bypass

Did you try the latest Gecko OS AND my latest Gecko OS mod? Both are available at:
[wiibrew.org]
and should have a higher compatibility than Gecko OS 1.07b, which could be different for each.

Also the region free capability is nothing that can reduce compatiblity. Nintendo's disc channel checks the disc id and simply refuses to work for import games, while loaders just start all games.

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:24:04 +0200

I am not quite sure if you wanted to make a point?

Just wanted to say, that a homebrew game-patching-channel is already done.

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:42:15 +0200

Quote
daniel_c_w
*cough* GeckoOS *cough*

Last time i checked, every Wii sold comes with wii sports not the HBC, and some games do not work with gecko os, an example being my copy of MoHH2 pal,

since region free isnt needed we only need the patching system not the region check bypass

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:13:48 +0200

*cough* GeckoOS *cough*

Re: Game patching idea?

flyguy — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:26:38 +0200

it would be nice if a separate channel was made to update and apply patches to a game of your choice. (heck we should send something like a request to nintendo)
i for one would love to have an official (or unofficial) channel to do this. patches inserted to an actual game?! that would save nintendo and developers alike.
i vote yes

Re: Game patching idea?

SteelSLasher — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:42:11 +0200

In the case of metroid prime we could just load the game dol instead of the menu dol and patch the game dol but for the users sake it should be doen via a channel so that people dont freak out

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:23:35 +0200

Quote
WiiPower
Quote

Is that the way Wii games, that are spread over multiple .dols, use?
I don't understand. I described how i am able to load another .dol instead of the main.dol.

Yes I see. But in your post (the one I originally aimed the question at) you were talking about Metroid Prime.
I assumed you meant: "that is how offical games execute another .dol", not "that is how we can execute and patch another .dol".
Doing the later was never in question, because the homebrew scene has already proven that, obviously.

Re: Game patching idea?

daniel_c_w — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:17:24 +0200

Quote
SteelSLasher
Yep thats how its done,

How did you find that out?

Quote
SteelSLasher
Also, we wont need to change how the resources are loaded since we can patch an ios to check if an updated resource is available locally and redirect the file to that, if there is no updated version the one on the disc is used.

That's a good idea.