Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 09:15PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Their life here would still be 1,000,000 times better without legal citizens unfairly being forced into supporting them. New laws in support of the illegal will only hurt you and I more.Quote
comex
I suspect that most illegal immigrants did not have any reasonable opportunity to "do it the legal way".
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 09:22PM | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 77 |
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Arikado
What we need are new laws that give them all the opportunity to become legal immigrants as painlessly as possible. But I assure you, you won't see that happening anytime soon under the Obama administration.
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 09:30PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 703 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 09:32PM | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 77 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 09:49PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
I believe you and Dancingninja are trapped under a common misconception. The "Individual Mandate" provision of the bill requires every person in America to have a health care plan. It is illegal to not have one, and you will be fined if you do not. However, it states that you need only at least one health care plan. Later provisions in the bill explain new taxes that everyone will be required to pay regardless of whether or not they use the government health care plan offered to everyone. People who do not use the government health care plan will ultimately pay less than those who do (depending on your insurance of course -- but I wouldn't mind paying more for better coverage), but they will still be forced to pay for it. Thus, everyone is forced to pay for government health care but not required to make use of the government health insurance plan. Here is a list of most, if not all, of the new taxes contained in the bill that everyone will be required to pay: [www.atr.org]Quote
comex
Arikado, I'm sorry if I missed it, but I haven't seen you address this post. Under what terms of the new bill do taxpayers have to (effectively) pay for two plans?
Regardless of my general political status why would I (or anyone) be against something that helps people that's not at the expense of others who don't need the help?QuoteQuote
I'm going to go back to my analogy of NY State auto insurance. Everyone has to have it. But the government offers a plan for anyone who can't afford it or get accepted for it privately. Anyone who doesn't use the government plan doesn't have to pay for it. People who work hard and are accepted on to private plans actually pay less. Furthermore, laws are in place in ensure that no one is abused by any private policies. If only the government had taken a similar approach with health care on a federal level as was hoped, things would be all good
Aren't conservatives usually against a public option?
While they may, it's certainly not an illogical prediction in any way when looking at everything done by the Obama administration already.Quote
comexQuote
Arikado
What we need are new laws that give them all the opportunity to become legal immigrants as painlessly as possible. But I assure you, you won't see that happening anytime soon under the Obama administration.
Hmm. On the first point, then, we agree.
But surely using pejorative terms does not engender this cause?
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 10:11PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 703 |
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comex
Anyone in, say, Mexico? Really?
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 10:41PM | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 384 |
Yes, I realize, we're far from the ideal thing, still, with no egoism, leadership won't even exist. However I think we should go in the direction towards the ideal, not away from it. How would it benefit the govenment, you say?Quote
Arikado
It's a beautiful notion, but at that point, leadership would become the new currency. People will never be equal in every way. So let's work with what we have, and try to make it better. The new American health care bill only makes things worse for everyone in a hope to benefit not the people, but the government (the vast majority of my country agrees with me).
Yes, that's a problem. Unfortunately, political salaries must go kinda high to avoid bribability. The thing about NASA is indeed a shame. Unfotunately, I've read to little about it to really say something, but it doesn't sound good in my ears. It's also a shame your government doesn't donate to reaserch, but hey, don't they? What about the HUGO project and other things, like that particle accelerator (which was canceled, but still)? I've got the feeling that USA heavily support research, but then, I've maybe got the wrong impression. After all, I don't live there or anywhere near it.Quote
Arikado
I stick to my original comment. For the record, the salaries of these health care company heads are less than many of the government officials (including those in state governments -- My state governor of NY has a salary of a whopping $179,000 a year -- but its not close to the governor of California who makes an insane $206,500 a year). Health care companies also regularly donate to medical research which is something the government certainly does not do. If anything, out government restricts research. Look at what they're doing to NASA: [www.washingtonpost.com]
Maybe the ones who are saving lives arn't the worst. Still a 80 % tax income over $ 1 000 000 would still make those guys wealthier than enough.Quote
Arikado
I stick to my original comment. Also, please see the last big block of text I wrote. In short: Good for business men if they're smart enough to make loads of money meanwhile doing good for millions of people. I've never had a problem with them, only been saved by them.
1) It doesn't contradict what I said before.Quote
Arikado
1)Thats not what you said before
2)How does the policy of one nation make the world more equal?
Yeah, that's fair. Except for one thing which I'll cover at the end of this post.Quote
Arikado
I'm going to go back to my analogy of NY State auto insurance. Everyone has to have it. But the government offers a plan for anyone who can't afford it or get accepted for it privately. Anyone who doesn't use the government plan doesn't have to pay for it. People who work hard and are accepted on to private plans actually pay less. Furthermore, laws are in place in ensure that no one is abused by any private policies. If only the government had taken a similar approach with health care on a federal level as was hoped, things would be all good.
I'm not wanting anyone of my friends to expect this. I'd like to have high taxes instead.Quote
Arikado
If your friends are only your friends because they expect you to share what you have, then I regret to inform you that your friends are using you like a tool and you should go look for some new friends. Of course in essence, this health care reform bill is only exploiting people too ...
Yes, the ability they have. But it's alot (ALOT) harder for one who's born on the street to get to the top than one who has a wealthy dad who pays school and stuff. (Don't know about U.S. laws, but you need to pay some of your own studies, right?)Quote
Arikado
Profetylen, the United States is not a country of equality, but instead of equal opportunity. Each person, no matter where they came from, has the ability to achieve anything. Barack Obama is actually a perfect example of this: Despite growing up in a third world country, he was able to return to where he was born (if you believe he was born in Hawaii at least) and become president. Under no other political system today is this even conceivable. The more socialist our society becomes, more and more opportunity is taken away -- stories like this which our culture is based around will cease to exist if we continue on the socialist tract we are on.
Yeah, I hope that's not corruption from Obama himself (I really think he's a nice guy), but an attempt to gain enough votes to get this bill passed. This is the second bill, right? The first one, did it include the promised components?Quote
Arikado
Fun facts regarding the health care bill:
[www.sfgate.com] -- Unsurprisingly, Comrade Obama forgot to put promised components into the health care bill which sold some people on it. Of course, he made sure to remember to exempt himself and the rest of corrupt friends from having to abide under the bill. Most of the rest of his promised acts in the bill that we'll all be paying for soon won't even start happening until 2014 (hopefully he will not be re-elected and a new president can kill the bill by then)
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 24, 2010 10:51PM | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 77 |
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Arikado
Later provisions in the bill explain new taxes that everyone will be required to pay regardless of whether or not they use the government health care plan offered to everyone. People who do not use the government health care plan will ultimately pay less than those who do (depending on your insurance of course -- but I wouldn't mind paying more for better coverage), but they will still be forced to pay for it. Thus, everyone is forced to pay for government health care but not required to make use of the government health insurance plan. Here is a list of most, if not all, of the new taxes contained in the bill that everyone will be required to pay: [www.atr.org]
FSA Cap - I don't think this is part of the current bill.Quote
This is not expected to be a big issue for consumers as only a small percentage of FSA amounts are used to purchase over-the-counter medication, Natt said. About 70 to 80 percent of FSA payments are spent on deductibles, co-payments and prescription drugs, he said.
Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 - this is not a tax. Since employees whose employers do not already do this often can't easily tell how much their insurance costs, I don't see anything wrong with it. It was also proposed by a Republican.Quote
In approving the tax, Congress reasoned that medical-device companies could help pay for health-care reform because they stand to benefit from an increase in demand for their products as more people obtain health insurance and visit doctors.
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 25, 2010 04:22AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 286 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 25, 2010 08:30AM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 26, 2010 01:01AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 858 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 26, 2010 02:13AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 703 |
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WikiFSX
By the way, illegals pay taxes on everything they would actually have to pay taxes on.
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 27, 2010 02:23AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 14 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 27, 2010 03:07AM | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 77 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 28, 2010 05:42AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 286 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 28, 2010 05:24PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
It depends on the health care system. A public option is not necessarily socialist, however forcing everyone to pay for the public option like the US is doing is.Quote
Phredreeke
United States is the only developed country not to have some form of publicly funded healthcare. Are you saying all other developed countries are socialist? :P
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 28, 2010 08:18PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 552 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 29, 2010 03:21AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 858 |
Re: So, uh, the health care bill passed. March 29, 2010 03:50AM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
It depends on the scenario. Just like a diverse but balanced ecosystem is the strongest, so is a mixed but balanced economy.Quote
WikiFSX
What's so bad about some degree of socialism? Neither pure capitalism nor pure socialism can run a country.