Wii Web Server and it's full extend

Ok, so I was thinking about this earlier when I was playing some Zombie Panic Source on Steam. I downloaded the Wii Web Server application and threw together a quick html page just to test it out. Wouldn't you know it, it worked great and it basically just made my day. lol

But, later I was talking to a friend of mine who is putting together a server to run some Steam servers off of it and it got me to thinking about the server applications that are being worked on here.

I guess my general question would be this:

1) What is the current range of how much you can do with the current version of Wii Web Server?
2) What do you think would be the full extend of running a server on the Wii when it comes to its hardware? (Basically would it be able to handle something to the extend of a Steam server, or are just webpages about as far as it will get?)

Not don't get me wrong, what you guys have done so far is still great as far as I am concerned, I'm just curious about how far this could go. Thanks

Wii web server? Where is this? We were just talking about a how we want a homebrew wii web server in another topic!

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Arikado
Wii web server? Where is this? We were just talking about a how we want a homebrew wii web server in another topic!

Are you sure you're not talking about a homebrew browser? A web server hosts files and pages, the browser would be something like Opera or Firefox.

To contribute: I have no idea how Wii would fare hosting a Steam server, but I would absolutely go crazy if it could host a Source game server, let alone even an older game like CS 1.6. I don't know exactly how to set it up at the moment, but I could try setting up a CS 1.6 server once I figure out how the Web Server works. If anybody else has any information, please post! I am desperate for information.

I'm actually at school right now, so I can't do anything at the moment, and our homecoming football game is later tonight, but I will see what I can come up with.

Edit: After posting this, I realized that (unless I'm mistaken) in order to host a Steam server, you need to install Steam on whatever platform you're hosting from... and Wii, to my knowledge, wouldn't be able to run Steam. (Is it because of the Windows file system? I'm not positive, someone tell me. I'm trying to learn!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2008 06:00PM by Makkun.

Well, first thing's first, here is the Wii Web Server application that I am using:

[wiibrew.org]

It's been on the homebrew browser for a while now. =P

As for the running and installation of a source server, here are two options. Basically, the source server comes in two packages, Windows or Linux.

If I were to run a windows-based server, I think I would just pretty much download and install all of the files that a normal server would have on to my computer and than copy them on to my SD card. (Note that right now I only have a 2 GB SD card, but they can go as high as 8 GBs. So if all of the source server files can fit on 8 GB, that there's a higher chance of this working.

As for linux, pretty much the exact same setup, however the actual execution of the server might be easier, seeing as how we have a basic linux OS for the Wii. Not sure how good it might fare with a steam server, but won't know till we try.

8GB? You'd need to get the USB Mass Storage library added to the Wii Web Server for that.

It also depends on what the content of that 8GB is. If they are all static HTML pages, then there'd be no problem (although for that size, I'd doubt it).

If the pages are PHP, perl or another server-side scripting language, you'd need to extend the Web server to support such a language.

If there is a mySQL database, or other such databasing system, again, you would need to port the database engine, and work out some way of it running at the same time as the web server (unless you merged both projects into one huge one).

I'm not familiar with Steam, so I'm not sure what differences the Linux and Windows packages provide, but you are right, with a simple Linux OS on the Wii, it might be relatively easy to port it.


@Makkun: No the file system isn't that relevant (It is important to a degree, but libogc has FAT support, so does Windows, and thats how we can copy files to the SD cards from both systems). It is all dependant on any code which is run. Code is CPU specific (in terms of architecture, and not per physical unit). So something designed for an Intel processor (like most desktops) wouldn't run natively on the Wii (ARM and PowerPC processors). You would either need to recompile the source code, or create a Virtual Machine, that converts the code from one processor to another on the fly.

Now, I'm actually really curious about this now. I'm gonna go boot up my laptop and begin downloading the files for a Linux server on Ubuntu. I'll post back with some information about what it's got.

@whodares: Oh, I see. For some reason I didn't think Wii could read FAT... although I didn't even think about SD cards.

@SaviorX: Yeah, after I edited my first post, I thought about the Linux server, but I could never get that to work on my Xbox so I didn't even want to act like I could try it.

For some reason, I can't get Linux to run on my Wii... and I assume you mean the Gamecube Linux that comes with the "default" HBC apps? When I run it, I see Tux and I get a lot of lines of information, registering tcp/udp modules and that no network devices are available. The last two messages are hard to read 'cause of my TV, but I think they say "Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly." and "unused kernel memory 160k init"

Is this how it is supposed to function? I thought there would be a GUI. How do you go about running programs? Once I figure out how this works, I will try to run a CS 1.6 server.

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Makkun
For some reason, I can't get Linux to run on my Wii... and I assume you mean the Gamecube Linux that comes with the "default" HBC apps? When I run it, I see Tux and I get a lot of lines of information, registering tcp/udp modules and that no network devices are available. The last two messages are hard to read 'cause of my TV, but I think they say "Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly." and "unused kernel memory 160k init"

Is this how it is supposed to function? I thought there would be a GUI. How do you go about running programs? Once I figure out how this works, I will try to run a CS 1.6 server.

The latest version of wii linux is a debian spin off and more or less complete, but it is all CLI no GUI in there yet you have to do it all command line, as most servers are...

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Makkun

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Arikado
Wii web server? Where is this? We were just talking about a how we want a homebrew wii web server in another topic!

Are you sure you're not talking about a homebrew browser? A web server hosts files and pages, the browser would be something like Opera or Firefox.

Lol. I was. Thats what happens when you're in school and you're not supposed to be on the computer for anything except the circuit simulation program (multisim).

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Warpedflash

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Makkun
For some reason, I can't get Linux to run on my Wii... and I assume you mean the Gamecube Linux that comes with the "default" HBC apps? When I run it, I see Tux and I get a lot of lines of information, registering tcp/udp modules and that no network devices are available. The last two messages are hard to read 'cause of my TV, but I think they say "Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly." and "unused kernel memory 160k init"

Is this how it is supposed to function? I thought there would be a GUI. How do you go about running programs? Once I figure out how this works, I will try to run a CS 1.6 server.

The latest version of wii linux is a debian spin off and more or less complete, but it is all CLI no GUI in there yet you have to do it all command line, as most servers are...

Okay, then how do I go about executing a line? Do I have to plug in a USB keyboard? There wasn't even space for a command prompt or anything on the screen. Would all executable files be put in a folder in the root folder of the apps/GCLinux or whatever?

The version in that pack is before the USB driver was there (it was designed as a "Look what I can do" type of thing). You will need to install using this: [www.gc-linux.org] . This will get you started with it running but to get any further you need to know linux. Googling basic commands will get you to navigate (like to go into a folder you cd it. To view the director you ls (that is a L). To run a program you use a dot and slash like ./ then without a space put the program name there.)

Thanks. I worked with Linux (Gentoox) when I modded my Xbox last summer, but the command lines never made sense to me so I Googled everything. I will see what I can come up with!

Alright, so I currently downloading and installing all of the files needed to run a server in linux. Actually, I have to reformat my entire laptop HDD because there's not enough room for it. =P So that's gonna take a little more time, THEN I'll finish installing all of the files.

So, the basis of my idea is essentially this. Getting a version of linux running on the Wii that has USB support. I don't need a gui, direct command line interface is perfect enough and there isn't even a gui for the servers. Now, after I get the full statistics of what files are being used and the amount of space they take up, the next step is to see what network options the aforementioned linux distro has. If it's compatible with what Steam works with, then we're golden. =D

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SaviorX
Alright, so I currently downloading and installing all of the files needed to run a server in linux. Actually, I have to reformat my entire laptop HDD because there's not enough room for it. =P So that's gonna take a little more time, THEN I'll finish installing all of the files.

So, the basis of my idea is essentially this. Getting a version of linux running on the Wii that has USB support. I don't need a gui, direct command line interface is perfect enough and there isn't even a gui for the servers. Now, after I get the full statistics of what files are being used and the amount of space they take up, the next step is to see what network options the aforementioned linux distro has. If it's compatible with what Steam works with, then we're golden. =D

wii-linux has usb support and works with the nintendo ethernet adapter, no wifi though.

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Warpedflash

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SaviorX
Alright, so I currently downloading and installing all of the files needed to run a server in linux. Actually, I have to reformat my entire laptop HDD because there's not enough room for it. =P So that's gonna take a little more time, THEN I'll finish installing all of the files.

So, the basis of my idea is essentially this. Getting a version of linux running on the Wii that has USB support. I don't need a gui, direct command line interface is perfect enough and there isn't even a gui for the servers. Now, after I get the full statistics of what files are being used and the amount of space they take up, the next step is to see what network options the aforementioned linux distro has. If it's compatible with what Steam works with, then we're golden. =D

wii-linux has usb support and works with the nintendo ethernet adapter, no wifi though.

Yea, well if I plan on running a server, no way would I do it over wifi. =P Thank you though.

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SaviorX

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Warpedflash

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SaviorX
Alright, so I currently downloading and installing all of the files needed to run a server in linux. Actually, I have to reformat my entire laptop HDD because there's not enough room for it. =P So that's gonna take a little more time, THEN I'll finish installing all of the files.

So, the basis of my idea is essentially this. Getting a version of linux running on the Wii that has USB support. I don't need a gui, direct command line interface is perfect enough and there isn't even a gui for the servers. Now, after I get the full statistics of what files are being used and the amount of space they take up, the next step is to see what network options the aforementioned linux distro has. If it's compatible with what Steam works with, then we're golden. =D

wii-linux has usb support and works with the nintendo ethernet adapter, no wifi though.

Yea, well if I plan on running a server, no way would I do it over wifi. =P Thank you though.

just so you know :P

Web server != game server. You would need to run a server designed for the specific game you want to run, and just because there's a linux server doesn't mean that there's a PPC linux server, and the servers for something like HL aren't open source and thus can't be ported to PPC by anyone but their owners.

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caddr
Web server != game server. You would need to run a server designed for the specific game you want to run, and just because there's a linux server doesn't mean that there's a PPC linux server, and the servers for something like HL aren't open source and thus can't be ported to PPC by anyone but their owners.

I'm aware that a web server is not the same thing as a game server. >__> What I was referencing was the fact that the homebrew community has worked it's way up to the level of creating a basic web server. The point I drew from that, was that if you can establish the basic connections that a web server requires, then it could ALSO be possible that if you can get the necessary files to run a game server on to the Wii through some storage format and run them in Wii-Linux with the correct internet connections, it could be possible to run the game server. You would simply run it like any other program in linux.

The only real problem I for see is hardware-related. I don't know if the Wii would even be able to handle running something like that.

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SaviorX
then it could ALSO be possible that if you can get the necessary files to run a game server on to the Wii through some storage format and run them in Wii-Linux

It's not quite that simple. I could copy a "lite" version of a Windows install to an SD card, and plug it in the Wii. The Wii will be able to identify and read the files. However, it won't be able to execute them because the processor architecture is different.

(Compiled) Linux applications that run on your laptop (Intel/compatible) Linux won't run on the Wii (PowerPC), even if you boot GC-Linux.

You need the source and to recompile them



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2008 08:35PM by whodares.

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whodares

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SaviorX
then it could ALSO be possible that if you can get the necessary files to run a game server on to the Wii through some storage format and run them in Wii-Linux

It's not quite that simple. I could copy a "lite" version of a Windows install to an SD card, and plug it in the Wii. The Wii will be able to identify and read the files. However, it won't be able to execute them because the processor architecture is different.

(Compiled) Linux applications that run on your laptop (Intel/compatible) Linux won't run on the Wii (PowerPC), even if you boot GC-Linux.

You need the source and to recompile them

Just because something is linux compiled for computers doesn't mean it is intel only. There is a decent sized PowerPC linux community out there for the standard apple computer.