Updating the Forum Rules

With the release of the new 1.0.8 Homebrew Channel, WiiBrew has updated it's policy to exclude use and discussion of all patched IOSs also known as cIOSs. Our forum rules are going to be updated in correspondence with this policy.

Starting with this post, all discussion on the WiiBrew Forums regarding the installation and use of IOS patches is strictly prohibited.

This will be left to open discussion for a bit to ensure clarity throughout the forum.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2010 02:36AM by Arikado.

I read all that and don't understand some of it. So with this new rule does the dop-mii get changed so it doesn't patch any ios? Some of this sounds so confusing and complicated. Does it make some apps not work or will they still work, just now somebody creates a app it has to be able to run on a IOS and not a patched one? Can be a discussion on this to get a better understanding for some of us that might now understand it?

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dirtrider73068
I read all that and don't understand some of it. So with this new rule does the dop-mii get changed so it doesn't patch any ios? Some of this sounds so confusing and complicated. Does it make some apps not work or will they still work, just now somebody creates a app it has to be able to run on a IOS and not a patched one? Can be a discussion on this to get a better understanding for some of us that might now understand it?

The apps don't change. Discussion of apps that patch IOSes and install cIOSes is now prohibited here.

Ah ok so dop-mii for example wouldn't be able to be discussed since it patches ios's unless its reworked to not patch ios's and like the TBR those can't be discussed? So this is the reason for haveing IOS 58 then and delete ios 202 or is that just for the usb update for storage devices? It sounds confusing and complicated and sounds bad when I read through it all.

Under the new rule (I'm quoting myself here):

"Any application which requires a patched IOS to use or which grants users functionality to patch IOSs will be strictly prohibited throughout the WiiBrew Forum."

Since DOP-Mii requires a patched IOS to use, it is (as sad as I am to say it) strictly prohibited from discussion within the WiiBrew Forums.

May I, to put it bluntly, ask why?

because patched ios are deemed unnecessary and unstable

What exactly is the new policy regarding the support of applications requiring IOS exploits? Based on the Hackmii post and the applications that were removed from WiiBrew, I assumed that an application was unsupported only if it is capable of installing a patched IOS, or if it absolutely must run on a patched IOS (essentially meaning cIOS 202 or 249). This would, of course, leave things like Priiloader and Savegame Manager MOD (which are still on WiiBrew, by the way), as they do not necessarily require a patched IOS. But what about this:

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Arikado
Savegame Extractor, Savegame Installer, Savegame Manager, and Savegame Manager MOD all require a patched IOS to be used. So they are no longer supported by WiiBrew.

With the exception of Savegame Manager which does require cIOS 249, all of these applications actually can be used without a patched IOS. Is discussion of all applications that use the trucha bug, ES_Identify, or NAND permissions really not allowed, even if said applications can be run on an unmodified IOS?

jbc007:
I wrote that overlooking that there are very old vanilla IOSs in existence that had the trucha bug, ES_Identify, and NAND permissions in them. To that end, I redact my comment. Discussion of Savgame Manager MOD and Priiloder will only be allowed if discussion does not advise users to patch their IOSs.

Thank you for catching my mistake.

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Arikado
jbc007:
I wrote that overlooking that there are very old vanilla IOSs in existence that had the trucha bug, ES_Identify, and NAND permissions in them. To that end, I redact my comment. Discussion of Savgame Manager MOD and Priiloder will only be allowed if discussion does not advise users to patch their IOSs.

Thank you for catching my mistake.

and if all goes well priiloader wont need any ios patching soon so that is out of the picture then too :)

Going off of what dacotaco said; Myself and other developers are indeed working on developing new tools which do everything the old tools did without patching IOSs. Example: Installing content with any vanilla IOSs, a savegame manager that runs on all vanilla IOSs, priiloader installtion any of the vanilla IOSs.

So don't think that some functions of homebrew will be forbidden here forever ;-)

Sounds good. I never really cared for patched IOSes, as the only non-piracy applications that need them are those hard coded to use cIOS 202 or 249, and of course DOP-Mii, which only seems to work right when running on cIOS 249. This will definitely be an improvement in the end; however, it may be a pain for many users until applications are updated to not require IOS exploits.

Possibly the biggest issue with this new policy is that it will greatly reduce the usefulness of the FixMii section. I don't have time to think of and explain every single situation where this will be the case, but the most significant ones I will detail below:
1) At the moment, no applications have been updated to utilize the AHBPROT flag. Furthermore, it is possible that some never will be updated (AnyRegion Changer and System Setting Replace MOD seem like good examples). Such applications are critical for recovery from certain issues.
2) Applications launched through Priiloader can not utilize the AHBPROT flag. Even if Priiloader is updated to set the flag, many people will fail to update Priiloader for quite a while.
3) Sometimes it will violate the rules to tell a user which application to use to use to fix a bricked wii. After all, System Setting Replace MOD was, on occasion, a useful tool despite the fact that it required cIOS 249.

Finally, although it is entirely possible to update system channels by downloading them with NUS Downloader and installing them with a WAD installer, this is quite a pain. This was really the only purpose of WiiSCU, as having it patch the IOSes it installs has always been completely pointless. I'm not even sure whether the IOS patching feature works, as I tried it once but those supposedly patched IOSes were reported as unmodified by the Hackmii Installer and they did not accept fake signatures.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2010 04:23AM by jbc007.

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2) Applications launched through Priiloader can not utilize the AHBPROT flag. Even if Priiloader is updated to set the flag, many people will fail to update Priiloader for quite a while.

again, i dont set the flag. ios does. it sets the rights accordingly to what the system menu tmd says. i could adjust that but i wont for now(cause thats a fucking risky thing to do etc etc).
thing is; i know alot of recovery programs will switch over to the new method of accessing the hardware themselfs instead of depending on ios; and im really thinking about alternatives.... but sadly i know none ;_;

Is BootMii an exception to these new rules?

As of HackMii Installer 1.0.8 it will always install BootMii as a cIOS in order to enable installation of HBC.

Of course BootMii is an exception. It is not like a regular cIOS, it allows you to use MINI.

BootMii isn't a cIOS IMO. This is of course debatable, but generally a cIOS is simply a patched version of an official IOS. BootMii/IOS is simply a loader for MINI, and is completely custom. MINI Is Not IOS (that's what MINI stands for), but if you think about it, its really the only TRUE cIOS, as it is 100% custom and replaces IOS.

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SifJar
BootMii isn't a cIOS IMO. This is of course debatable, but generally a cIOS is simply a patched version of an official IOS. BootMii/IOS is simply a loader for MINI, and is completely custom. MINI Is Not IOS (that's what MINI stands for), but if you think about it, its really the only TRUE cIOS, as it is 100% custom and replaces IOS.

its easy. if you are hardcore and see ANY data in a ios slot as modified (even if its installed from a wad which results in a different ticket/some data is different) then yes, bootmii/ios is a c(ostum)ios.


if you see the term cios as a ios that is modified with ios patches then no, bootmii/ios is not a cios as it doesn't even contain any ios data. it is just mini. and we all know mini isn't ios.


thats basicly it really...

I don't understand why you guys keep eliminating good homebrew. I mean I get not allowing the piracy apps, but dop-mii is a very useful tool.

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Robert
I don't understand why you guys keep eliminating good homebrew. I mean I get not allowing the piracy apps, but dop-mii is a very useful tool.

It's also very dangerous; Especially to newbs who don't know what they're doing.