Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 06:11PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 51 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 06:32PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 07:07PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 51 |
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Arikado
Emulation is a science. Look at the two years it took the Wii64 team to develop Wii64! An ISO loader is 20 lines of original code combined with the work of other people (including Nintendo). It took marcan 4 hours to write one.
Emulation is an art. Emulator authors must have a perfect understanding of the emulated console architecture and that of the target platform. A monkey (ie: No architecture/hardware/low-level knowledge required) could write an ISO loader (and they have).
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Arikado
But I get what you're saying, the core "piracy" concept is still the same. But riddle me this: Pirated "modern" games are putting people out of business. Are pirated "retro" games? Hell no.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 07:24PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 703 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 07:41PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 5,075 |
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scanff
@swirleydude
A lot of the "Roms" people play are in the public domain. They are free! It's up to you if you want to download illegal ones.
Sure it's a fine line, if someone posted a message asking where to download a ROM I'm sure Arikado would delete it! If you noticed all of the post on this forum pertain to the emulators themselves and not illegal distribution of copyrighted material.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 07:55PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Since when are emulators programmed intetnionally for piracy? And since when do programmer's get paid for games they wrote 10+ years ago?Quote
swirleydudeQuote
Arikado
Emulation is a science. Look at the two years it took the Wii64 team to develop Wii64! An ISO loader is 20 lines of original code combined with the work of other people (including Nintendo). It took marcan 4 hours to write one.
Emulation is an art. Emulator authors must have a perfect understanding of the emulated console architecture and that of the target platform. A monkey (ie: No architecture/hardware/low-level knowledge required) could write an ISO loader (and they have).
Whatever helps you sleep at night. The fact still remains that both are to different means to the same end, run code you didn't pay for. Code that someone slaved over and the proceeds from pay for their lively hood, even if it is just their retirement now. Regardless as to whether you are using your own code to run someone else's or their own. It's just a difference of byte arrays and processor cycles versus circuit boards and resistors.
No, the people who make the VC emulators are hardware guru's with exception asm coding abilities. For that reason (among many others of course) we won't permit illegal WAD discussion.Quote
swirlydudeQuote
Arikado
But I get what you're saying, the core "piracy" concept is still the same. But riddle me this: Pirated "modern" games are putting people out of business. Are pirated "retro" games? Hell no.
So the people that collect and recompile the code for retro games for use in Virtual Console, Xbox Arcade, and Playstation Network don't deserve to be payed? Or are they just a monkey (ie: No architecture/hardware/low-level knowledge required) with a toolkit?
I beg to differ. There is a homebrew SDK available for probably any console you can think of. Emulators let homebrew devs test and release code without actually owning the console they are writing for. For example, I've been dabbling in writing DS homebrew and testing it on DeSmuME despite that I actually don't own any hardware to let me test my work on the actual console. I've never used DeSmuME for anything else. My friends and I have also done this with a variety of other console emulators and homebrew SDKs (particularly the Intellivision).Quote
SifJar
Come on, you know that's not true.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:02PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 5,075 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:15PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 703 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:15PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
I can accept that. I was only trying to point out that there are legitimate purposes for emulators that do not exist for ISO loaders or warez installers.Quote
SifJar
Well I'd hardly say that that is true for "a lot of the roms people play". Most people use emulators to play pirated ROMs. I am not against emulators, nor am I defending them. I agree they CAN be used for homebrew purposes, but I am stating the fact that in most cases they are not. I will take no further part in this argument.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:39PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 51 |
But if hacker can already crack the data format of the Wii discs to extract banners, etc. couldn't the process be done in reverse to create homebrew iso's just like homebrew roms? Users could download large homebrew apps that require complex folder structure as an Iso and burn it to a disc, then launch it with an Iso loader.Quote
Arikado
I was only trying to point out that there are legitimate purposes for emulators that do not exist for ISO loaders or warez installers.
So then aren't you helping people rip them off by providing a method to illegally play SMB3 rather than through the VC?Quote
Arikado
No, the people who make the VC emulators are hardware guru's with exception asm coding abilities. For that reason (among many others of course) we won't permit illegal WAD discussion.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:45PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
No, because the ISO loader's require the presence of functions from Nintendo's SDK. If said functions were in homebrew, said homebrew would be illegal.Quote
swirleydudeBut if hacker can already crack the data format of the Wii discs to extract banners, etc. couldn't the process be done in reverse to create homebrew iso's just like homebrew roms? Users could download large homebrew apps that require complex folder structure as an Iso and burn it to a disc, then launch it with an Iso loader.Quote
Arikado
I was only trying to point out that there are legitimate purposes for emulators that do not exist for ISO loaders or warez installers.
1) The same could be said of already existing emulators on different platforms. Thus, we are not hurting nor helping anyone.Quote
swirlydudeSo then aren't you helping people rip them off by providing a method to illegally play SMB3 rather than through the VC?Quote
Arikado
No, the people who make the VC emulators are hardware guru's with exception asm coding abilities. For that reason (among many others of course) we won't permit illegal WAD discussion.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 08:50PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 51 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 09:01PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Simply make them yourself (get some hardware that will connect to the ROM pins and output the ROM contents onto your PC, save the contents with the proper extension - .nes for example). Also, there are homebrew ROMs (made with a homebrew SDK) that are legal to download for free. NOTE: This is not the same thing as hacked ROMs.Quote
swirleydude
Yeah I knew that first one was a stretch, but I have never heard of a legal way to get roms. (Except maybe some Mame roms but then I thought it looked iffy)
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 09:07PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 51 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 09:09PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 445 |
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ArikadoSimply make them yourself (get some hardware that will connect to the ROM pins and output the ROM contents onto your PC, save the contents with the proper extension - .nes for example). Also, there are homebrew ROMs (made with a homebrew SDK) that are legal to download for free. NOTE: This is not the same thing as hacked ROMs.Quote
swirleydude
Yeah I knew that first one was a stretch, but I have never heard of a legal way to get roms. (Except maybe some Mame roms but then I thought it looked iffy)
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 09:59PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
No, it's fine. I actually enjoy intellectual debate :-) (If I didn't, I would've let others respond)Quote
swirleydude
Hope there's no hard feelings, I'm not trying to have any rules changed. I'm just bored at work and felt like starting a debate. :)
Laws are different for each country and said country's state/province that you reside in. To find out what it takes for you to legally obtain a ROM, research the laws specific to where you live. Generally though, you need to own the original to be able to have a copy of the ROM.Quote
darklink
so what you are saying means i have to own the game cartridge to have a rom, that is the legal way?
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 10:51PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 2,691 |
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 10:59PM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |
Too bad it's terribly biased. Not once do they mention that it is possible to make your own "Nintendo ROM" and thus legally have one. (Read their description of "What is an emulator" to see what I mean)Quote
WaxyPumpkin72
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
That explains lots of things (for people in the US....)
Re: Piracy double standard? October 02, 2009 11:24PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 5,075 |
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Nintendo Legal Site
The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic.
Re: Piracy double standard? October 03, 2009 12:14AM | Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 5,132 |