Mega Merged Oct.23 Update Thread

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stevey
Wouldn't the best fastest course of action to take is to install a cIOS with fake signing fix removed then update to keep all the homebrew functionality intact by having all disadvantage howebrew software call it? At least until a proper workaround is found...

One problem with this is if you've already updated the system, you won't be able to fakesign the cIOS install

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Muzer
Apparently, it doesn't let you access the shop channel unless you have it :(

Pretty lame, I just got a Wii points card to support WiiWare as a concept. I guess I'll have to wait on using the points until a workaround is found.

Is this going to hamper BootMii? Or would BootMii provide a way to work around this? I'm guessing you guys will post something on hackmii once you've analyzed the update, so I'll wait for that.

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DanielHueho
EDIT @ Arikado

Fakesigning is needed for "tricking" the Wii, making it believe the channel as legit. They use annoying encryption keys, that stuff, installing channels with Shop Channel or homebrew installers is essentially the same thing, but installers use the bug on the encryption method.

Wait, so couldn't we just dump the encryption keys and then use them avoid fakesigning?

Hmm... Well, this update is "only" for using Shop Channel. Personally I will wait for BootMii release before updating. Besides, I live outside USA, and the dollar is just too high for me... :P

I don't think that BootMii will solve all the problem, though. I just want to test it.

EDIT @ Arikado

OK, sorry, I said bullshit :P.
It's not really encryption, is more like a hash comparation for the channels signature. The short explanation is here:
[www.wiibrew.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2008 11:09PM by DanielHueho.

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Arikado

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DanielHueho
EDIT @ Arikado

Fakesigning is needed for "tricking" the Wii, making it believe the channel as legit. They use annoying encryption keys, that stuff, installing channels with Shop Channel or homebrew installers is essentially the same thing, but installers use the bug on the encryption method.

Wait, so couldn't we just dump the encryption keys and then use them avoid fakesigning?

I believe it has to do with public key(s) and private key(s) that aren't stored on a wii

>> [en.wikipedia.org]

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stevey

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Arikado

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DanielHueho
EDIT @ Arikado

Fakesigning is needed for "tricking" the Wii, making it believe the channel as legit. They use annoying encryption keys, that stuff, installing channels with Shop Channel or homebrew installers is essentially the same thing, but installers use the bug on the encryption method.

Wait, so couldn't we just dump the encryption keys and then use them avoid fakesigning?

I believe it has to do with public key(s) and private key(s) that aren't stored on a wii

>> [en.wikipedia.org]

So there's no way we could get them? It wouldn't even be possible to write a program that accesses the shop channel and grabs them?

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Arikado
So there's no way we could get them? It wouldn't even be possible to write a program that accesses the shop channel and grabs them?

I take it that you didn't read the wiki link then. Key pair encryption means each "party" has a public and a private key (ie, Nintendo and the Wii). If you encrypt something with the Wii's public key, only the Wii's private key can decrypt it.

Actually, as I type this, I'm thinking... Surely the Wii's private key must be on the Wii somewhere, if we could find it, it should be possible to recreate the public key. Then anything encrypted with the public key should appear valid to the Wii...

The only trouble might be with this, is if Nintendo "sign" the encrypted data with their something that identifies their key pair, and it is validated by the decryption scheme. In which case, we'd need somehow to get ahold of these to replicate, and that would be nigh on impossible



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2008 11:37PM by whodares.

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whodares
Actually, as I type this, I'm thinking... Surely the Wii's private key must be on the Wii somewhere, if we could find it, it should be possible to recreate the public key. Then anything encrypted with the public key should appear valid to the Wii...

Which was what I was thinking when I posted. And as a matter of fact, I skimmed the wiki.

EDIT: LIGHTBULB!!! Couldn't we dump the code of Mario Kart Wii or Wii Fit to see how they install their respective channels without using fakesigned code?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2008 11:54PM by Arikado.

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Arikado
EDIT: LIGHTBULB!!! Couldn't we dump the code of Mario Kart Wii or Wii Fit to see how they install their respective channels without using fakesigned code?

Epic fail.

RSA 101 (Or read this)

RSA encryption is done with key pairs. One key is used to encrypt data, and one key is used to decrypt it.

The encryption key is also called a "private key," because you want to keep this private. The decryption key is a "public key," and you give this out to whoever needs to read data from you.

So, Nintendo has a "private key" that they use to encrypt/sign various data.

Your Wii has a "public key" (known as the "common key"), which it uses to decrypt this data, and in the process, ensure that it is made from Nintendo's private key--as key pairs are unique.

So, unless Nintendo fails really really hard, or someone plays epic social engineer, we'll never see the private key.

It's not like the Wii only has one bug, though. Chillax, have a couple of beers, play Xbox for a while. I hear you can get them cheaper than Wiis now.

so in the end, wait until something is made for this, and then buy stuff on the shop channel?

Has there been any word from team twizzers?

Also I my brother and a friend both just have HBC installed and run programs off the sd card, they don't do any wads, dvdx, or other ios stuff to the system memory. Are they safe to update?

yes, it's safe for "I my brother and a friend" to update.

Anyhow, I have an idea! Does the firmware downgrader work? If so, you could run the downgrader with the Twilight Hack and THEN install the homebrew channel, and then re-update it. Does that sound practical?

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strongfan
Anyhow, I have an idea! Does the firmware downgrader work? If so, you could run the downgrader with the Twilight Hack and THEN install the homebrew channel, and then re-update it. Does that sound practical?

No to downgrade you need to uninstall the IOS, that requires a patched cIOS, that requires to be signed and installed....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 03:09AM by stevey.

Say if I had emulators in my homebrew channel can I keep adding roms to it for them to play or does the update negate that?

You can add roms.

AFAIK homebrew programs on the SD card aren't affected by this at all, assuming you already have the Homebrew Channel. They're not signed to begin with and don't have to be; only the Homebrew Channel itself needs to be installed and it can branch execution to the rest of them. And ROMs have nothing to do with that in any case, so you should be fine. This affects the installation of *channels*, like WiiWare and Virtual Console stuff, and other homebrew stuff packaged as a WAD.

In short: If you can access the emulator, you can do what you want with it.

Edit: Curse you and your succinctness, icefire!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 04:16AM by Spoom.

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Spoom
Edit: Curse you and your succinctness, icefire!

LOL :)

So what does the update do if you have the HBC installed on your wii?, will it not work,erase it? can you say no to the update?should i delete the HBC, then update my wii, then copy it back onto my wii? my friend doesn't have the HBC, and he has wi-fi, and he might have this update, so he won't be able to install the HBC on his, or what?
sorry for the question barrage, just wondering....

same questions over and over

I, in my tired state early this morning, installed the update. I already had HBC, HBB, and DVDX installed.

No, it won't delete HBC or DVDX.

No, it won't remove any channels you've already got installed, regardless of their legality, and they will all continue to work (other than channels which exist to install something else, as noted below).

Yes, it will block any fakesigned installs, which means the installation of any new channels or WADs through whatever method you want to use to install them. (This is personally unverified but it's written practically everywhere.)

No, it won't block additional content from being seen / run in HBC. Basically, anything you do on your SD card will continue to work.

Yes, you can say no to the update, by not actually going into your Wii system settings and clicking Wii System Update. I've been told by good sources that there is no such thing as automatic system update on the Wii (other than through game discs, and there are almost certainly no discs with this update on them yet; you can even say no to these if they come up, though you probably won't be able to play the game in question). This means that if you haven't gone through and manually updated, you should be fine.

Yes, the homebrew devs are working on it / have a solution that requires further testing (from what I've heard).

No, you shouldn't bug them about it.

Yes, I like yes / no questions.

Perhaps we should have a FAQ or something?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 04:56PM by Spoom.