Updating the Forum Rules

It's the IOS patching that's not supported here. That's it. Since Dop-Mii patches IOSes and installs them, it is not supported.

Sorry to stir the water again, but I have to agree with Robert.

You have a point saying that there is no need (at least ATM) for patching any file, and that with current HackMii release it is safe to update through Nintendo official update. And as you also mentioned before, this is all people need to enjoy homebrew.

However, there are some great tools which their devs have put a lot of effort on, which are primarily focused to advanced users (Leave Wank's crap aside) and can always give that extra that some people is looking for (those who like to keep control of everything inside their Wii).

After TehSkeen's death, this was the only site where experienced users could fulfill their homebrew needs, but now there is no place currently supporting or holding these great tools together. This definitely is discouraging great devs to keep supporting their tools, and they will soon stop becoming updated. This will mean that when Nintendo comes out with a 4.4 update, we will get screwed since all the apps we could have used to get workarounds meanwhile Team Twiizers figure out another exploit (which could take months!) will be gone for good.

I don't support warez nor piracy by any means, but I believe the authors of such tools don't either.

I have a major problem. I would like to know why it is that all this is prohibited here but yet when you are directed by ANYONE on THIS forum to WiiBrew wiki, there is almost everything under the sun that you say is prohibited here. Can we please make up our minds on what we can and can not discuss or promote? After all the wiki is part of this site!!!! I think that until there are real changes in the way apps and other things are made, we should still be able to discuss some things, not all, but some, yes.
I mean as the rules seem to change it is apparent that there is more and more becoming prohibited. Censorship? yea I think it is. Anyway the point is for example. You say that preloader can not be discussed anymore. What if someone doesn't have a GC Controller to restore the backed up nand and the wii they have is bricked?? If they come here for help, I am pretty sure they are screwed, am I right? I think that the people who run this site need to re think the rules and maybe make a list of exceptions for the rules. That is all that I ask. I figure directing them to a site that tells them about prohibited stuff is also not allowed, so what is to stop, lets say I for example purposes, from PMing someone and tell them about a app that could save them and their wii, but the app is illegal forum wide here? I mean after all from what is not allowed I can see you losing more of your new users due to unanswered questions. Thus your ranking goes down and down. Lets face it, I am positive that people have had a problem with a wii and searched google, found this site only to find taht most of the q's they have are not prohibited thus they turn to GBAFAIL as everyone here calls it. I can see someone reading this post when I am done and preforming a google search for GBAFAIL, lol, to only find that this site is popping up more and more in that search lol. Way to mess someone up lol. I can also see many many people asking here what GBAFAIL is or means. So since this thread was about discussing rule changes and it is appearent that people are mentioning tools and such taht are now prohibited I will say it, only b/c I can not resist. GBAFAIL IS GBATEMP which supports piracy. You like how I threw that "which supports piracy" in there? Lol so now they know what it is and that they support piracy which is absolutely PROHIBITED everywhere in this forum. See that was easy. I am sure that that will be either deleted or edited out by someone but I don't care b/c I am not supporting it just supporting the fact that GBA is all about piracy. Thanx and have a great day! :D

If people are advanced enough to use those tools, they don't need a support forum, and can find the tools by themselves ;)

WiiBrew is, IMO, the best place for beginners, and so should be tailored for them. Of course, there are discussions of more advanced topics in these forums, and that is only to be encouraged, but it is inadvisable to guide people to use potentially dangerous apps they don't understand. If a person wants to use more advanced tools, not supported by WiiBrew, that is solely their own choice, and they have the freedom to do as they please. They just can't ask for help here with those things, which I think is a decidedly good thing. "Why?" I hear you shout; Well, if someone needs help to use an advanced and potentially dangerous app, they shouldn't be using it IMO. Only when you know what you're doing should you mess with those things.

Anyway, what some of you fail to realise is that most of these apps ARE still supported here. Its only apps that install a patched IOS that are disallowed. Those that make use of them are OK for discussion.

Finally, the rules are set, and they're not gonna be changed. Hate to break it to you, but this isn't a democracy.

So you are saying NUS downloader and WAD installer are not dangerous apps that can turn a Wii unusable if you don' t know what you are doing. I want to see how it will be handled where n00bs under 4.2 stub out IOS70 not having Preloader and not being able to install BootMii/Boot2.

SirJaf, with all my respect, did you really think throughly before saying that WiiBrew is a place for beginners and that it should be tailored out for them??? WTH??

So what about technical advanced questions?? This is THE place where advanced users can get in touch with the developers openly and receive tips to squeeze out the best of their Wiis. So, if you are turning this into a newbie guiding place, where are advanced users supposed to move to in order to solve their inquieries?

What you state is a fallacy, saying that only newbies have questions, and advanced users should not have. Actually the most complicated and hard to solve questions are those which require a forum to be solved, with the participation of many experimented people. Newbs can get their answers by simple googling for them.

And once again, I repeat, discouraging good devs by not supporting their great tools is going to be fail in the future!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 05:22PM by Axel.

Yea I know this, but did you know that making any unauthorized modifications to anything nintendo releases is against the Nintendo policies also? We never truly own stuff we purchase with the name Nintendo on it, we only pay for the license to use it. That is why they say any unauthorized modifications to Nintendos products is piracy no matter what it is. There for that would make the entire forum piracy. Just saying. Not starting any trouble. I have already gotten on your bad side with a joke I made in another thread, Sir Jar. ;) None the less, this is true to a point. I am NOT supporting piracy either.

As for, "Anyway, what some of you fail to realize is that most of these apps ARE still supported here. Its only apps that install a patched IOS that are disallowed. Those that make use of them are OK for discussion." So we can support the apps and such that use the patched ios's, or CISO if you prefer, but we should not tell anyone that is uses them or even explain what makes them illegal? like 'did you know that using this app is the same thing as supporting piracy because it uses cios 249', for example purposes only,' so we will not tell you anymore about it.' What if I wanted to create a cloned app but w/o the cios , then mentioning that I have removed such and such in the app would be illegal also right?

These are just questions that people will have for you no matter what, so now you can answer these and many more here and then directing people to this thread for further explanation. See every one wins, assuming you don't blow your lid on any of the stuff I have said lol


P.S. I fixed the typo ya had. lol It is a Z not s in realize :P I make typos alot to but it is the "h" in words like the and that I type to fast lol


"If I can not state my opinion somewhere, then sadly my individuality is lost."
^^^^^^ Wrote by me.

Edit: LMAO I alweay get beat to the punch on my posts... I should slow down on my post I guess lol and yea what that kat said about the Wad proggies. and such



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 05:31PM by zeveroth.

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zeveroth
As for, "Anyway, what some of you fail to realize is that most of these apps ARE still supported here. Its only apps that install a patched IOS that are disallowed. Those that make use of them are OK for discussion." So we can support the apps and such that use the patched ios's, or CISO if you prefer, but we should not tell anyone that is uses them or even explain what makes them illegal? like 'did you know that using this app is the same thing as supporting piracy because it uses cios 249', for example purposes only,' so we will not tell you anymore about it.' What if I wanted to create a cloned app but w/o the cios , then mentioning that I have removed such and such in the app would be illegal also right?

It seems you still fail to understand. You can openly talk about any non-warez app that uses a patched IOS (e.g. Priiloader, FSToolbox, whatever...), you just cannot mention tools that install a patched IOS, or give instructions on how to install them. I can't make this any clearer.

And Axel: I understand that it is still possible to brick with WiiBrew supported tools. But it is less likely IMO if there isn't a plethora of tools ready and willing to do so on your first mistake.

And I know that there are many experienced users who frequent these forums, but there are far more n00bs. I do not want to limit the experienced users and developers, but really, these people KNOW how to install patched IOS if they feel it is necessary, and that is the ONLY thing that is being disallowed that was allowed before. They can still discuss everything they could before, save for actually patching IOS. Any use of a patched IOS is OK for discussion, provided the installation of said patched IOS is not discussed. IMO, this is best for everyone. Experienced users should most likely be able to install patched IOS without help, and n00bs shouldn't try to do so, with or without help. And if experienced users are struggling, there's always IRC ;) I know that I for one am always happy to help anyone who asks for help.

So to use the apps you have to use a patched ios, correct? Well what if they are completely new to all of this and have yet to install them? Lets say, I am a noob and want to hack my wii for legal purposes, whatever they maybe, I would want preloader and this is the first place I find on a google search, who is going to help me install what I need to use preloader, you?? I doubt it from what u have just said. The point is if you support the apps that use the cios then you should also have support for noobs to install them assuming that you do not want any uninformed person(s) to brick their wii(s). So how is it better for everyone that visits the site??

Every application that can install or absolutely requires a patched IOS is no longer supported here. System Setting Replace Mod and a few others were removed simply because they can not operate without a patched IOS. However, applications that can make use of a patched IOS, but can run on an unpatched IOS are still supported. The vast majority of applications that use IOS exploits fall in this category. Priiloader, Savegame Manager MOD, and most other applications can run on an unpatched IOS, so they are still supported.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 07:14PM by jbc007.

Sunday, October 25, 2009
System Setting Replace Tool 0.21
by BlackAce83

Here's a Small Mod of a Old Program System Setting's Replace Used Mainly when you've uninstalled your System Menu and have tried to re-install it only to find your WiiMote doesn't connect and your system setting's have been removed. Which kill's Wiimote doing so.

Useful for replacing your System Setting.txt if its removed

CHANGELOG v0.21
================
-Fixed a Failed -106 error
-Added a Warning\Info Screen Explaining how to use it
-IOS-Reload to IOS249 So people wont have to worry about patching a IOS, Just need -IOS249 Installed
-IOS-Check to See if the IOS is Installed Correctly or Stubbed.
-It Already had GC Pad Support

So without giving the site i got that from does that in red say that it doesnt need a cios? is 249 only a cios or was it already there on the wii b4 the community started using it?

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jbc007
Savegame Manager MOD, and most other applications can run on an unpatched IOS, so they are still supported.

Excuse me, but I believed Savegame Manager MOD does require an IOS with NAND Permissions enabled, which is not found in any latest revision of any IOS, thus it is required to patch an IOS in order to enable them, or downgrading an IOS which you already have installed (bad idea).

So how are users going to achieve this without the proper tools?

IOS 249 is always a cIOS (not including the useless stub that Nintendo now installs to remove cIOS 249). System Setting Replace MOD requires cIOS 249, which is what is stated by the red line in your post. This is why it is no longer supported here.

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Axel
Excuse me, but I believed Savegame Manager MOD does require an IOS with NAND Permissions enabled, which is not found in any latest revision of any IOS, thus it is required to patch an IOS in order to enable them, or downgrading an IOS which you already have installed (bad idea).

So how are users going to achieve this without the proper tools?

I never said that this application would run on the latest IOS revision with out it being patched. However, some of us still have IOS 36 v1042 (on which nearly everything will run normally), and there is no absolutely benefit to having a later revision.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 07:46PM by jbc007.

Does this mean you guys are dropping the WIIMC app also?? It uses 202 which is another cios, but it isnt for piracy.

WiiMC now uses IOS 58, not 202.

i stand corrected. :D

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jbc007
However, some of us still have IOS 36 v1042 (on which nearly everything will run normally), and there is no absolutely benefit to having a later revision.

This is where it becomes contradictory.

If you still have IOS36 v1042 it means that either you downgraded it, or you have never updated your System Menu through Nintendo. If this is the case, then you surely have upgraded it using the tools not supported anymore such as DOP-Mii.

Can you explain me then if you think keeping the first rev of IOS36 is the best thing to do, why are you encouraging the people to update through official updates? That makes no sense IMO. How are you going to explain users that they need to have an older revision of the IOS after they have updated, or how are they going to do this?

I have IOS36 v1042 also, but installed in another slot (IOS205). That way I have been able to get a mint official installation of SysMenu 4.3 without losing trucha or other bugs capabilities. Of course, I could have never been able to do without the proper tools.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 08:03PM by Axel.

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Axel

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jbc007
However, some of us still have IOS 36 v1042 (on which nearly everything will run normally), and there is no absolutely benefit to having a later revision.

This is where it becomes contradictory.

If you still have IOS36 v1042 it means that either you downgraded it, or you have never updated your System Menu through Nintendo. If this is the case, then you surely have upgraded it using the tools not supported anymore such as DOP-Mii.

Can you explain me then if you think keeping the first rev of IOS36 is the best thing to do, why are you encouraging the people to update through official updates? That makes no sense IMO. How are you going to explain users that they need to have an older revision of the IOS after they have updated, or how are they going to do this?

I have IOS36 v1042 also, but installed in another slot (IOS205). That way I have been able to get a mint official installation of SysMenu 4.3 without losing trucha or other bugs capabilities. Of course, I could have never been able to do without the proper tools.....

You fail to understand that the advice given out is for noobs who don't know what they're doing. Obviously advanced users can patch their IOSes and find the tools that are no longer supported here to do so. It's that simple. It is not contradictory, he is just stating what he has; It has nothing to do with encouraging people who are new to homebrew.

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Axel
'If you still have IOS36 v1042 it means that either you downgraded it, or you have never updated your System Menu through Nintendo. If this is the case, then you surely have upgraded it using the tools not supported anymore such as DOP-Mii.

Actually, it just means that you never updated past 3.3 "v1". Unless you own more WW/VC games than will fit on the NAND and therefore have use for the SD card menu, there is no real benefit to having a system menu above 3.2. Also, although I won't actually recommend that people downgrade IOS, downgrading IOS 36 (or any other IOS, for the matter) is never going to cause an issue on non "LU64+" wiis.

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Axel
Can you explain me then if you think keeping the first rev of IOS36 is the best thing to do, why are you encouraging the people to update through official updates? That makes no sense IMO. How are you going to explain users that they need to have an older revision of the IOS after they have updated, or how are they going to do this?

I would advise against updating altogether. After all, it provides essentially no benefits. However, many people choose to update anyway. It is far better to perform an official update than to use a "safe" updater, as the "safe" updaters are a common cause of bricks and they screw up IOS with unnecessary patches. Updating manually is fine, as long as you know what you are doing (and by doing so, you can keep all the old IOSes). However, that is again something I would not recommend to people, because the people who would do it based on the recommendation are likely the same people who would do something wrong, thereby bricking their wiis.

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Axel
I have IOS36 v1042 also, but installed in another slot (IOS205). That way I have been able to get a mint official installation of SysMenu 4.3 without losing trucha or other bugs capabilities. Of course, I could have never been able to do without the proper tools.....

Although not a bad thing, it would be better to have IOS 36 v1042 installed in the IOS 36 slot, since some applications will only run on IOS 36. It would bring no harm if you installed IOS 36 v1042 in the IOS 36 slot, but again, I won't recommend this in general since someone would try this on an "LU64+" wii.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 09:31PM by jbc007.

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Axel

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jbc007
Savegame Manager MOD, and most other applications can run on an unpatched IOS, so they are still supported.

Excuse me, but I believed Savegame Manager MOD does require an IOS with NAND Permissions enabled, which is not found in any latest revision of any IOS, thus it is required to patch an IOS in order to enable them, or downgrading an IOS which you already have installed (bad idea).

So how are users going to achieve this without the proper tools?

Not sure if someone else already answered this (but it needs to be emphasized so I'll gladly do it again): There are really old vanilla IOSs which can work with Savegame Manager MOD which is why it has not been removed from the wiki. Keep this in mind when looking at other applications (like DOP-Mii) which require a patched IOS to be used.

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Arikado

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Axel

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jbc007
Savegame Manager MOD, and most other applications can run on an unpatched IOS, so they are still supported.

Excuse me, but I believed Savegame Manager MOD does require an IOS with NAND Permissions enabled, which is not found in any latest revision of any IOS, thus it is required to patch an IOS in order to enable them, or downgrading an IOS which you already have installed (bad idea).

So how are users going to achieve this without the proper tools?

Not sure if someone else already answered this (but it needs to be emphasized so I'll gladly do it again): There are really old vanilla IOSs which can work with Savegame Manager MOD which is why it has not been removed from the wiki. Keep this in mind when looking at other applications (like DOP-Mii) which require a patched IOS to be used.

This was basically the entire point of my last post, but it certainly does need to be emphasized.