So, uh, the health care bill passed.

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35961584/ns/politics-health_care_reform/?GT1=43001

So, uh, thoughts?

Thank F'ing GOD... AND I'M AN ATHEIST =p

Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

All we can do is hope the next President repeals it.

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Arikado
Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

All we can do is hope the next President repeals it.

Lol. Seriously, what is so wrong with trying to get as many people as possible to have a health insurence? The money it costs? Well, I'm sure you get much back as healthy people can work more and better than ill ones.

Well..... we're screwed....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2010 03:50PM by TopGun96.

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profetylen

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Arikado
Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

All we can do is hope the next President repeals it.

Lol. Seriously, what is so wrong with trying to get as many people as possible to have a health insurence? The money it costs? Well, I'm sure you get much back as healthy people can work more and better than ill ones.

Won't solve a thing, guys get sick because they live unhealthy lives, no amount of health-care will solve that.

Compare [images.google.nl] vs [images.google.nl]

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Daid

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profetylen

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Arikado
Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

All we can do is hope the next President repeals it.

Lol. Seriously, what is so wrong with trying to get as many people as possible to have a health insurence? The money it costs? Well, I'm sure you get much back as healthy people can work more and better than ill ones.

Won't solve a thing, guys get sick because they live unhealthy lives, no amount of health-care will solve that.

Compare [images.google.nl] vs [images.google.nl]

Lol!!

Doctors will tell you not to eat that and alot of diseases would happen even if you'd live a healthy life. It easy to break a leg for example and thats not cheap to fix unless you're insured. Despite the cost of fixing, your salary can decrease or go away completely depending on what you work with.

[www.medicalnewstoday.com]

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The annual healthcare cost of obesity in the US has doubled in less than a decade and may be as high as 147 billion dollars a year says new government-sponsored research.

Yes, breaking a leg sucks, and it is costly to fix. But mass living unhealthy is like everyone breaking legs all the time, every few years. The amount of health problems that you can get from being fat is insane (which might even include a higher risk to break bones, I'll get back to you on that)

Interesting note, in Great Britain, they eat some horrible, horrible foods (and not just disgusting, but bad for you too), but they live healthier lives due to their health care system.

I do agree that people really should eat better and take better care of themselves; I personally think that a large portion of our problems could be literally solved if everyone would just wash their hands after going to the bathroom.

And no, "I didn't get anything on me" is not an excuse.

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Daid
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/158948.php

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The annual healthcare cost of obesity in the US has doubled in less than a decade and may be as high as 147 billion dollars a year says new government-sponsored research.

Yes, breaking a leg sucks, and it is costly to fix. But mass living unhealthy is like everyone breaking legs all the time, every few years. The amount of health problems that you can get from being fat is insane (which might even include a higher risk to break bones, I'll get back to you on that)

So letting people visit a doctor for a not too high price, so he/she could tell them that they need to stop eating bad food is a bad idea?

@dancinninja: Agreed! Especially with the last part!

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Arikado
Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

I'm just going to go ahead and take a wild guess that you've never read any socialist literature. Because if you have, you'd know that neither Obama, nor any of his policies, are based in Socialism

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dancinninja
Interesting note, in Great Britain, they eat some horrible, horrible foods (and not just disgusting, but bad for you too), but they live healthier lives due to their health care system.

I do agree that people really should eat better and take better care of themselves; I personally think that a large portion of our problems could be literally solved if everyone would just wash their hands after going to the bathroom.

And no, "I didn't get anything on me" is not an excuse.

lol. Get your facts straight.

The UK had the worst mortality rate from liver cirrhosis in the world due to bad diet and alcohol.

Also did you know in the UK there's a 6 month waiting list for a heart bypass. Most people have to re-mortgage their home to pay for it privately, the other option is death.

I've has first hand experience with the socialized national health care system in the UK. When you're told sorry you'll have to wait to get a letter for a surgery date ( 4 months later). Oh and then they add, if you have bleeding or extreme pain just got to the ER.

Bottom line is I'm not happy with giving more tax dollars so that deadbeats can get free health care, if you want health care then get a job, it's not a right!

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cactusjack901

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Arikado
Welcome to The Socialist United States of America.

I'm just going to go ahead and take a wild guess that you've never read any socialist literature. Because if you have, you'd know that neither Obama, nor any of his policies, are based in Socialism

Obama's politics are based around "Spreading the wealth". Socialism.

This entire healthcare plan is one of a socialist society as aspects of the economy regarding the health care market are now centrally planned and state-directed. However, if you wanna substitute in communist for socialist on this one I'd agree with that too as this is really a government takeover of an industry.

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There are three essential problems with the health care system now:
1)The people who already have private health insurance gain nothing but another forced tax on their hard earned money meanwhile people who cant afford to pay for health coverage exploit these people's wallets. It's not fair to the people who already have private health insurance, they can not choose whether or not to accept government health insurance as well.

2)More people in America are put out of a job as people who can't afford government and private health insurance are forced to drop their private health insurance putting those private health insurance companies out of business. The 10% unemployment rate is bad enough already.

3)The government health care plan is a lot worse than most private health care plans. Medical facilities are now going to be afraid to treat people for fear of pissing off the government. So if I have a heart attack, the hospital won't save my life until a government official tell them to go ahead. God help me if it happens on a Sunday and the government official is on his day off. "Treat First - Pay Later" is now no more ...

There are some good aspects to the health care system now.

The private health care system is very corrupt. I just wrote a paper on how AIG is ripping people off by giving them less health care than they were told they were entitled to. That being said, anyone who takes their time to look through different health care plans available to them won't have a problem. It's a true shame that things are like this though.

Regardless of how you feel about it morally, it's also nice to see the government taking a pro-choice stance towards abortion now. Well I would never condone abortion, I don't think the government can tell people what they can and can't do to their bodies.

Yes there are good elements to the health care system now and yes reform of the health care system was indeed needed. But it should have been done through new laws protecting people from being cheated, not by government takeover of the entire industry.

On a side note: All members of Congress have exempted themselves from being forced to have government health insurance. So it's not good enough for them but they'll force millions of Americans to have it?

On a side side note: scanff's post above about British health care is my greatest fear of health care in America will now become.

On a side side side note: I'm a libertarian for anyone who's wondering.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2010 11:17PM by Arikado.

@Arikado, can you put a "like" button on these forums so I can click it on your post.

Sure, right after I figure out to plug in those other modules (spoiler button and show forum) ;P Phorum tutorials aren't very helpful :/

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Arikado
1)The people who already have private health insurance gain nothing but another forced tax on their hard earned money

Mm, which tax? The one which only applies to people making over $200,000? Fair enough, but that sort of calls item 2 into question.

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2)More people in America are put out of a job as people who can't afford government and private health insurance are forced to drop their private health insurance putting those private health insurance companies out of business. The 10% unemployment rate is bad enough already.

No, really. What

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3)The government health care plan is a lot worse than most private health care plans. Medical facilities are now going to be afraid to treat people for fear of pissing off the government. So if I have a heart attack, the hospital won't save my life until a government official tell them to go ahead. God help me if it happens on a Sunday and the government official is on his day off. "Treat First - Pay Later" is now no more ...

...

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Yes there are good elements to the health care system now and yes reform of the health care system was indeed needed. But it should have been done through new laws protecting people from being cheated, not by government takeover of the entire industry.

You know most of the industry will be unchanged (except that such laws will be added), right?

(Sorry, I don't like to flame but this topic makes me feel strongly. Can you point to a specific aspect of the bill [tax, whatever] that you disagree with so it can be debated intelligently?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2010 11:23PM by comex.

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comex

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Arikado
1)The people who already have private health insurance gain nothing but another forced tax on their hard earned money

Mm, which tax? The one which only applies to people making over $200,000? Fair enough, but that sort of calls item 2 into question.

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2)More people in America are put out of a job as people who can't afford government and private health insurance are forced to drop their private health insurance putting those private health insurance companies out of business. The 10% unemployment rate is bad enough already.

No, really. What

It's simple really. Many people can't afford government and private health insurance so they have to drop paying for the private one because they can't drop paying for the government one. This results in at best downsizing of insurance companies and thus cutting jobs. Also, only the people at the top of the insurance companies make 6 digit salaries.

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Yes there are good elements to the health care system now and yes reform of the health care system was indeed needed. But it should have been done through new laws protecting people from being cheated, not by government takeover of the entire industry.

You know most of the industry will be unchanged (except that such laws will be added), right?

I beg to differ on that. Only time will tell though ...

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(Sorry, I don't like to flame but this topic makes me feel strongly. Can you point to a specific aspect of the bill [tax, whatever] that you disagree with so it can be debated intelligently?)

Yeah, I kinda feel strongly about it too. No hard feelings outside of the political realm, right?

Here's an issue for you: In my state (New York) the state requires that everyone have auto insurance. The state offers auto insurance so that everyone can be insured, but anyone that uses a private insurance company doesn't have to pay money to the state.
So how about doing something similar on the federal level by requiring that everyone has health insurance but only people who need government health insurance (because private companies won't accept them) pay for it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2010 11:47PM by Arikado.

I did misquote the UK, I apologize. That was somewhere else which I will not say until I go get the source so as to not misquote again.

Has anyone ever had to deal with an insurance claim before? I have, and I know a LOT of people who have been through much, much worse. Suffice it to say, private health insurance is fundamentally a flawed concept, much like banks.

To use the banking example: banks are for-profit companies, meaning it is in their best interest to A) charge you fees and B) make money by interest/loans. Private mortgage insurance doesn't cover YOU, the borrower, it covers the bank. They don't care about you (which is one of the reasons that we're in this mess). Anyway, the same principle applies to insurance companies. It is in their best interest to deny anything and everything that they can, while collecting premiums. The more income that they have (premiums) and the less expenses that they have (payouts), the more profit. That's the simple economics of the situation.

I'm not saying that the government would be perfect. Oh heck no. I'm just saying that the government doesn't stand to benefit as much from denying claims than insurance companies, who have to answer to shareholders.

My fear is not the "takeover" or whatever, it's the insurance companies' response to it. Having been used to making very, very good money for so long will likely put them into a panic, scrambling to squeeze everything that they can out of those that they have.

lol, I have an Uncle at the top of an insurance company, makes 7 digits every year, if things go to the worse we'll move our insurance to him. But he doesn't seem worried, those with private health insurance get better coverage, and doctors don't deny them service (medicade).

7 digits, eh? I think you just proved my point better than ever I could.