Work together: Let's change (fix) our forum!

When the WiiBrew Forums you're reading this on were created, they were created as the second WiiBrew Forums. The original forums had a number of problems with them, the foremost being illegal content and downright stupidity from users. These forums were launched as a masters cleanse, bringing a new set of rules to fix the old problems and limiting the advising staff to only the most knowledgeable people in order to prevent "moderation games".

The new forums (that you're reading now) have a very strict set of rules and try to eliminate nonconstructive discussions whenever possible. This has greatly improved the overall quality of the forum since people are only here to work. A vast number of accomplishments have been made in the Coding and Reverse Engineering boards which have actually affected Wii Homebrew as a whole. The Getting Started, Homebrew General, Homebrew Applications, and FixMii boards have helped literally several thousand users with unique dilemmas. All of this has been accomplished in the almost 2 years this forum has existed.

However, times change, and so do people. Lately users of our own forum have called it unfair, inflammatory, and derogatory.

As an administrator of the forums, I take these comments very seriously. I want to promote friendly community that will solve any problem you have, so long as it is not for illegal purposes. Even if you do break a rule, I strongly believe in second (and third) chances. Even then, you are more likely to lose a few forum privileges then to be completely banned from the forum. If at all possible, I really would like to avoid banning people as much as possible. Like all people, I'm not perfect, I do occasionally make a mistake (at which point you need to remember to call me out on it) but I think I do a pretty good job overall.

Instead, the negative comments seem to stem from the fact that people don't like strict and solely constructive discussions. I understand that we're all not coders/hackers, but there is no need for anyone to post a topic about a youtube video we think is funny. (Isn't that what facebook is for?) People don't like having their comments deleted just because they posted something ridiculous entirely for "shits and giggles". Overall, I think the forum is pretty lenient with such behavior despite the pro-constructive mindset that is preached.

Despite that though, all of the administrators, moderators, and I do what we think is best for the forum following this manner. Yet, there is still a great too many users unhappy with how some part or some way our forum is run. In this post, I encourage you to reply by voicing your concerns and displeasure so that we may work to correct it.

Beyond whether our forum is too strict, there is a great deal of other issues I'm concerned with that I would like to address in this post:

The reverse engineering board is very quiet, and also rather large. I'm considering turning it into two forums instead of four. One for hardware reverse engineering and the other for software reverse engineering.

Wii Linux is a growing topic of discussion among the internet (there is even a dedicated channel in #wiilinux on EFNET). However, it really only fits in Offtopic forum's criteria. Should we create a dedicated forum for it?

Many users feel that I'm the only active forum power, and that we should appoint a new, active, full forum moderator. I actually disagree with this as I have yet to see someone truly qualified and I believe the other people are more than active enough. But if you, the community, feels strongly otherwise then please voice your opinion.


This post was made because this forum is of a large importance to me and a great number of users. As such, when problems occur, we must work together to fix them. Since many people have made comments to me that problems exist, I feel it is necessary to have a community discussion. Similarly, I strongly encourage anyone who wants to to talk about additional problems they see and voice suggestions to improve our forum.

Thank you for listening, and all the best to everyone who chooses to respond and partake in this discussion.

-Arikado
Administrator



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 01:57AM by Arikado.

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Arikado
The reverse engineering board is very quiet, and also rather large. I'm considering turning it into two forums instead of four. One for hardware reverse engineering and the other for software reverse engineering.

Seems like a good idea to me. Topics are rarely made in hardware, except for once every month or so.

I can't think of anything else that needs fixing apart from what you've already stated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 12:18AM by WaxyPumpkin72.

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WaxyPumpkin72
I can't think of anything else that needs fixing apart from what you've already stated.

If you have any more input regarding this I'd love to hear it.

Thank you very much for your response.

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Arikado

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WaxyPumpkin72
I can't think of anything else that needs fixing apart from what you've already stated.

If you have any more input regarding this I'd love to hear it.

I honestly can't really think of anything else....

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WaxyPumpkin72

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Arikado
The reverse engineering board is very quiet, and also rather large. I'm considering turning it into two forums instead of four. One for hardware reverse engineering and the other for software reverse engineering.

Seems like a good idea to me. Topics are rarely made in hardware, except for once every month or so.

I can't think of anything else that needs fixing apart from what you've already stated.

I concur. Making those into two instead of four is a good idea. There really arent a whole lot of posts in that section.

I asked a while back for a section that we could use for coding examples/guides. There are a lot of coding questions about how do I do this on the Wii, most of them are duplicated several times. I know there are several good articles and guides on Wii programming on the Wiki but they are hard to find.

So my suggestion is basically a forum section under coding for programming how to's. We could start out by bringing some of the existing articles over from the wiki. like

- A guide to programming the Wii Mote
- A guide to GX drawing

I know the information is here, I'm just suggesting a better format that people might look at before asking questions like, "how do I play a mp3" for the one hundredth time.

scanff, I really like your suggestion. I will see if phorum supports subforums, or forums within forums. If it does, I will attempt to get a subforum for what you described made as soon as possible. If subforums aren't supported, I will see about creating a new forum for just what you asked.

Update: Phorum does not support forums. Im not sure if a new forum for your suggestion would be the best idea. Maybe a sticky in Coding linking to coding guides though? (I'll let you author it if you want)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 03:34AM by Arikado.

Well since you asked... and since i had a drink with dinner...

1) Arikado, you do a great job moderating the forum... you might come across on the harsh side a bit, but if people don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

2)

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Arikado
but there is no need for anyone to post a topic about a youtube video we think is funny.

then get rid of the off topic forum... to me that seems like the perfect place to post about iPhone hacking, virus software info, funny videos, the stupid homebrew mascot fiasco that is still alive, etc... If you are going to have an offtopic forum, that should be safe for ANYTHING (except piracy and other illegal topics). but, like i said in the first comment, if people don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

3)

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Arikado
as I have yet to see someone truly qualified

That is ridiculous... maybe it's just because there are a bunch of "kids" running this forum (sorry, i'm an old guy) but as an admin of multiple other forums of various topics ranging from hobby to work related, i can list about 5 people here worthy to be mods... BUT once again, it's your forum, if we don't like it, we can go elsewhere.

4) i enjoy the way you handle things here... you're quick to the punch, you make it short and sweet, you make it a bit entertaining most of the time, and you handle the idiots pretty well...

The problem is that people take this forum too seriously... this isn't what the real world is like.. this is an internet forum... a hobby group... everyone needs to realize that... you are all going to grow up, go to school (hopefully) get a job, meet a girl (or boy), have kids, live your lives... no one is going to remember or care if you got banned, or in a flame war, or were an admin or mod... there is much more to life than this forum folks.... let's not get caught up in it by complaining about admins, or rules, or banning, or over the top mods...

To everyone: Enjoy the hobby, ask question, tinker with the wii, if you do something wrong, Arikado will deal with it... don't like the way he deals with it... big deal... move on, try not to piss him off next time, don't let him or anyone get to you.

To Arikado: Keep doing what your doing, but remember its just for fun... it's just a hobby... it's an internet forum... it won't be the most important or exciting thing you are in charge of in your life... Keep banning the newbs who can't read the red letters at the top, but don't get to caught up yelling at the folks that have been here a while. It'll all work out. You do a great job as mod and now as admin. Keep it up!

I'm just here for the fun of tinkering with the wii, bit of programming, bit of learning, etc. NONE of my above posts were meant to flame, dig, take pot shots, or offend anyone... NONE of what i said means anything, take it or leave it, just my observations. If i don't like it, i can go somewhere else :D

^^ Wow.... I agree 100%

@Arikado I too think that there are a couple of us that are qualified to be mods. Keep doing what you are doing as you are doing a magnificent job here.

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TopGun96
I too think that there are a couple of US that are qualified to be mods

Now Now TopGun, post QUANTITY doesn't count towards mod worthyness (haha there's my pot shot for the day!)

But seriously, i think Arikado is correct... we don't need more... when it's getting too much for him to handle, he'll ask for some help, but I think we're good to go right now!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 04:00AM by mdbrim.

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mdbrim
2)

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Arikado
but there is no need for anyone to post a topic about a youtube video we think is funny.

then get rid of the off topic forum... to me that seems like the perfect place to post about iPhone hacking, virus software info, funny videos, the stupid homebrew mascot fiasco that is still alive, etc... If you are going to have an offtopic forum, that should be safe for ANYTHING (except piracy and other illegal topics). but, like i said in the first comment, if people don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

Well, I just think it's silly that we should use our forum to host youtube video comments. If I see something I don't like I will just delete with no consequence to the user unless this is umpteenth time they've done it.

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mdbrim
3)

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Arikado
as I have yet to see someone truly qualified

That is ridiculous... maybe it's just because there are a bunch of "kids" running this forum (sorry, i'm an old guy) but as an admin of multiple other forums of various topics ranging from hobby to work related, i can list about 5 people here worthy to be mods... BUT once again, it's your forum, if we don't like it, we can go elsewhere.

I would actually consider you (and scanff who also replied to this topic) to be truly qualified people. The problem is that normally, people with the knowledge and natural gift to lead a forum such as this would generally rather do other things with their talents. Like, for example, code/hack instead of telling other people how to code/hack and yelling at newbies. If you are truly interested (and this goes for scanff too) in stepping up to a leadership position, I would seriously be more than willing to sit down with other members of the forum staff and see if we can work something out.

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mdbrim
The problem is that people take this forum too seriously... this isn't what the real world is like.. this is an internet forum... a hobby group... everyone needs to realize that... you are all going to grow up, go to school (hopefully) get a job, meet a girl (or boy), have kids, live your lives... no one is going to remember or care if you got banned, or in a flame war, or were an admin or mod... there is much more to life than this forum folks.... let's not get caught up in it by complaining about admins, or rules, or banning, or over the top mods...

Entirely correct. In the grand scheme of things, everything that happens in our portion of the internet is entirely trivial.


Thank you very much for you participation in posting a response to this topic mdbrim. I truly appreciated it (and all of the compliments in it). I remember we had a small gripe with each other in the past, but since then we've both helped each other out on a number of different things . Your actions throughout the course of your entire stay on the forum perfectly represent thw words you have just written. I truly thank you for being a member of our community.


TopGun96: My exact final words to mdbrim apply to you as well. I sincerely appreciate the time you have donated to our forum.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 04:21AM by Arikado.

I did not mean to imply in any way that I am deserving of moderation status. I was stating that some of us (as in the regulars) are. Certainly not me. I know that a lot of my posts are not very meaningful, but I do try my hardest to help as many people as possible.

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Arikado
TopGun96: My exact final words to mdbrim apply to you as well. I truly appreciate the time you have donated to our forum.

Heck I like to help people and learn about hacking while doing so. Thank you for the recognition as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 04:23AM by TopGun96.

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TopGun96
I did not mean to imply in any way that I am deserving of moderation status. I was stating that some of us (as in the regulars) are. Certainly not me. I know that a lot of my posts are not very meaningful, but I do try my hardest to help as many people as possible.

lol i was just messin with you man... i like to talk about your post count because i went away for work for 2 weeks and came back to find a new guy (you) and you already had 3 times my post count!!

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Arikado
Well, I just think it's silly that we should use our forum to host youtube video comments.

fair enough... there are probably more suitable places for this... i'm starting to see your side of it... off topic means "off topic" but still USEFUL stuff (iphone dev, virus software, etc)... i'm sold!

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Arikado
I would actually consider you (and scanff who also replied to this topic) to be truly qualified people... If you are truly interested (and this goes for scanff too) in stepping up to a leadership position, I would seriously be more than willing to sit down with other members of the forum staff and see if we can work something out.

I would love to help out in any way i can... i'm on this forum more than any of my other ones for the sole reason that i enjoy talking and learning about homebrew on the wii. I've been fortunate enough to learn many things from you and the others on this forum and pass that on to some of the new folks. AND, i'm still "new" enough here compared to some of you seasoned veterans that i don't mind answering a lot of the simple mundane newb questions. If you could use another mod, and the forum staff gives the thumbs up, i would be happy to help.

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Arikado
I remember we had a small gripe with each other in the past, but since then we've both helped each other out on a number of different things

Yeah I'm still a bit embarrassed about that :D I over-reacted to something stupid and instead of flaming back, you handled it a lot more mature than i did!

We got a good forum going here... I think part of it has to do with threads like this... finding ways to keep it tip top!

I honestly think this is one of the most well run forums I've ever been on. However, I think our major problem comes from our size. We may be the premier forum as far as where stuff gets done, seeing as how we're endorsed by Twiizers and whatnot, but we lose out on many people who actually can help, and contribute, because we don't support backupz and wadz!!!1!1!!!!!!

What I think we really need, to be honest, is to get a few people together, to go through both the forums and the wiki, and clean out the useless info, and maybe do a little restructuring. I know that some of us (in other words, me) would enjoy a revamp of the Homebrew Applications list on the wiki ( [wiibrew.org] ), maybe revive the featured homebrew feature on the main page (I'd be willing to pick this up, if nobody else is willing, it's not like I have anything better, or more exciting to do at the moment). Maybe make a new Homebrew Showcase. Hell, maybe even allow discussion of Wankynono tools, as long as they don't pertain to Piracy (granted, 9 times out of 10 they do pertain to this, but it can't be denied that there are occasions where they have a function. A good example of this happened to me a few weeks ago, my friend got a Wii and was on 3.4, and wanted 4.1, and this was during the big 4.2 scare, so I sat down with DOP-IOS MOD, Wanky's WAD Manager, and NUS Downloader, and updated him by hand. A perfectly legitimate use for a tool used mostly for piracy.)

Granted, most of my suggestions pertain to the Wiki, not so much the forum, but I view them as dependent on each other. If we had no Wiki, we would have no forum, and if we had no forum, nothing would get done on the Wiki, so maintenance of that is just as integral, if not more so, than the forum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 07:44AM by cactusjack901.

Yes, I believe the wiki needs to be cleaned up too. I'd be willing to help you out, cactusjack.

cactusjack901/WaxyPumpkin72,

I agree the Wiki is outdated and the featured sections are not maintained. It's my understanding that anyone can update it so if you guys wanted to add areas or update the featured homebrew then I would say go for it, It does look abandoned. The beauty of the Wiki is it can be changed back with one click if there's an issue.

cactusjack901,

I understand you wanting to have a little freedom with certain topics but remember without the rules this site would NOT be here. The rules are for the protection of Wiibrew.org and this forum, one whiff or piracy or illegal talk would bring the Wrath of Nintendo upon us, and bye bye homebrew. The homebrew community has basically given Nintendo the middle finger and there's nothing they can do about it, lets not give them a reason.

Arikado,

Thanks for the offer of more forum privileges, you're doing a great job. I can't believe how much time you spend on here!

As for the coding tut's/guides a sticky is a good idea. Something we could add to or maybe just link to the wiki from.

mdbrim, BTW I'm an old guy too.

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mdbrim

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Arikado
I would actually consider you (and scanff who also replied to this topic) to be truly qualified people... If you are truly interested (and this goes for scanff too) in stepping up to a leadership position, I would seriously be more than willing to sit down with other members of the forum staff and see if we can work something out.

I would love to help out in any way i can... i'm on this forum more than any of my other ones for the sole reason that i enjoy talking and learning about homebrew on the wii. I've been fortunate enough to learn many things from you and the others on this forum and pass that on to some of the new folks. AND, i'm still "new" enough here compared to some of you seasoned veterans that i don't mind answering a lot of the simple mundane newb questions. If you could use another mod, and the forum staff gives the thumbs up, i would be happy to help.

Awesome. I'll start working on seeing about adding you to the staff this weekend.

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mdbrim

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Arikado
I remember we had a small gripe with each other in the past, but since then we've both helped each other out on a number of different things

Yeah I'm still a bit embarrassed about that :D I over-reacted to something stupid and instead of flaming back, you handled it a lot more mature than i did!

Lol, yeah, me too :-P

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scanff
Thanks for the offer of more forum privileges, you're doing a great job. I can't believe how much time you spend on here!

So does that mean you accept the offer? If so I can see about adding you to the forum staff this weekend.

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scanff
As for the coding tut's/guides a sticky is a good idea. Something we could add to or maybe just link to the wiki from.

I know theres a list on the wiki somewhere thats updated pretty regularly. I guess we could mirror the list in the forum or just link to it. Let me know if you decide to start a topic listing all of the coding guides and I'll sticky it for you.

Regarding the reverse engineering board:
bushing is actually single handedly responsible for the creation of each board and forum. I'll run the proposed changes by him this weekend.

Regarding Wii Linux:
Is there anyone besides me who thinks a forum for it would be a good idea? It's fine if you all actually dont. I was just wondering because no one has mentioned that one of my suggestions yet.

Regarding the wiki:
The wiki actually is more separated from the forum then you would think. It's maintained by different people and is handled differently. Any drastic changes you would like to make to it (besides cleanup) should be discussed in #wiidev on EFNET or the proper talk pages before making said changes. Otherwise, if the majority of people end up not liking your ideas/changes, you could be in a heap of trouble.

Also, someone (cactusjack I believe) pitched the idea of another homebrew showcase video. I think thats a great idea! if anyone takes it up, I'd really appreciate if someone would let me know so I can see if I can get some of my new homebrew into it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 05:26PM by Arikado.

Arikado, I know you don't like me, but I'm sure we can overlook our differences (and by that I mean my inexperience). I think a forum/board for tutorials is a great idea, maybe have a couple people who know how to use the programs (or the creators of the programs) show some of the features of the apps. Maybe the users could ask questions and the guys who know the apps could answer with small, quick tutorials.

As for what cactusjack901 was saying, perhaps we could have a specific forum for legal uses of wads and backups, etc. and assign perhaps one or two mods who operate specifically on that forum to make sure all discussion is kept legal.

I think your suggestion for a separate forum for WiiLinux is a good idea, although maybe you should make one for all alternate operating systems on Wii (unless any other OS is impossible on Wii).

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Hman360
I think a forum/board for tutorials is a great idea, maybe have a couple people who know how to use the programs (or the creators of the programs) show some of the features of the apps. Maybe the users could ask questions and the guys who know the apps could answer with small, quick tutorials.

Can't the Homebrew Applications forum be used for that? (Also, the tutorials discussion was about coding tutorials, not homebrew (app) help ones)

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Hman360
As for what cactusjack901 was saying, perhaps we could have a specific forum for legal uses of wads and backups, etc. and assign perhaps one or two mods who operate specifically on that forum to make sure all discussion is kept legal.

That will never happen. If it did, every pirate and their brother would come over and simply word their topics "legitimately/legally".

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Hman360
I think your suggestion for a separate forum for WiiLinux is a good idea, although maybe you should make one for all alternate operating systems on Wii (unless any other OS is impossible on Wii).

Correct, Linux is the only possible OS to install and run on the Wii. However, there are several distros (different versions) of it available.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 06:52PM by Arikado.

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Arikado
Can't the Homebrew Applications forum be used for that? (Also, the tutorials discussion was about coding tutorials, not homebrew (app) help ones)

OH... okay, I get it now... Although maybe even then, you could have some guys post small tutorials, perhaps in response to other coders' requests?

I do see your point on the "legal" wad forums... I suppose even with 200 mods, it might be impossible to weed out all the illegal posts...

I think scanff would be a great idea for a mod. Perhaps jsmaster might be good too.