WiiBrew Creation Tool for Beginner Programmers

I posted a note about a tool for making WiiBrew. I am not in any way affiliated with the tool except that I am a user.

In my previosu post I even indicated that the tool comes in a free version and that the free version is quite capable of making fully functional Wiibrew. There is a Pro version for a cost but the free version is good enough for many projects. I will not discuss the Pro version so that this post is not mistaken for some advertisement for paid product. I repeat, the Standard Verison is free and is capable of making fully functional Wiibrew.

My post was removed because some members assumed I was making a commertial for the product. This is not the case! I am only trying to make others aware of this software because in my opinion it is an excellent tool for beginner programmers who want to make Wiibrew.

Other members questioned why not learn C/C++ for free. Well, the free version of this software (which can make fully working Wiibrew) is free but more importantly it is about a user's programming skills and a user's choice to use whatever tools they like.

I, myself, have coded Wiibrew using direct C/C++ and I have coded using this software tools. In my opinion, both have advantages and disadvantages. With direct C/C++ coding you can do a lot more sophisticated stuff (like 3D, complex logic, etc) but generally you need some slightly advanced programming stills to do so (or borrow greatly from other sample programs). The software tool, on the other hand, has limits on what it can do but it makes many simple things really easy to do so that even very basic programmers can create graphical games with collision detection, movement, animations, etc.

Please don't delete this post just because you prefer to use direct C/C++ or some other tools. Let the forum members know about this tool and let them make up their minds for themselves. I am sure this software is not right for many advanced users but it may be just the right thing for some beginner programmers. Just like the world of PCs...some programmers prefer the full control of Visual C/C++ while others prefer the ease of Visual Basic. If you are not interested then skip this post but please don't delete it (request to have it deleted) so that others, who might be interested, can read it.

The software tool is Wii Game Studio ...The standard version is absolutely free and it can make fully functional Wiibrew...The software is out of the Beta stage. It does still have many bugs (as can be seen on the forum) which are being worked on but in most cases they are workarounds posted on the forum. I have used it myself and within hours was able to created a fully functional platform game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 02:47PM by Arikado.

I also recieved this message via PM. Here is the response I sent out:

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Arikado via PM
No.

The problem is that you're trying to use our forum as a grounds of advertisement to sell a product. Irregardless of what the product is, it's against our forum rules. I've personally lost all the respect I've had for your product by the actions you've demonstrated twice now.

Now on to problems specifically with Wii Game Studio:

This isn't a philosophical debate over whether it is better to use raw code or tools, it's an issue of morals.

A HUGE number of people put a helluva a lot of work into the devkitPPC tool chain and SDL port. I'm sure none of them see a penny from a product being sold which uses their work. I'm not even sure if it's legal to sell your product since it requires said licensed code - but it may be depending on how it's packaged - either way, it's at least not fair to them.

I don't mind it that someone took the time to put the puzzle pieces together and make a game studio. In fact, I'm thrilled that it's now easier then ever before to make wii homebrew games. However, you're selling the ability to do so. Wii homebrew was created for free, and should thus stay free. In my eyes, you people are just as disgusting as people who repackage and sell our free software (homebreware for example). Wait, isn't that what you're actually doing in some sense?

I truly hope that anyone stupid enough to even consider paying a fee to make Wii homebrew is at least smart enough to try to find a torrent first.

Good day,
Arikado
Administrator

Edit: I fixed some errors in the response. Please disregard the private response.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 08:43PM by Arikado.

Now to the members of this forum:

Should we support Wii Game Studio on our forum?



I am personally for the removal of all discussion of it on our forum. They are selling a product which uses the hard work of others. They also have their own support forum on their website, so there's really no need for there to be any discussion of it here.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 08:27PM by Arikado.

Arikado,

Yes I agree, unless the author of Wii Game Studio can prove he's not using open source code then we should not allow it here.

From first impressions it looks pretty limited, just a tool for more space invader and pacman clones.

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Arikado
Should we support Wii Game Studio on our forum?

No.

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WaxyPumpkin72

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Arikado
Should we support Wii Game Studio on our forum?

No.

I concur.

No we should not support Any wii game studio. It is basically like stealing.

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TopGun96
No we should not support Any wii game studio. It is basically like stealing.

I disagree slightly. We should not support any Wii Game Studio, which charges money. If its free and open source, I see no problem.

Hi!

Just a comment...

If you note, the new post (i.e. the one above) only talks about the Free Version which can be used to make Full Working WiiBrew.

I only mentioned the upgrade in passing and I did not make any attempt to push it (i.e. an advertisement). This time, in my post, I did not menton any of the benefits.

Also, I don't expect this forum to support this software...the software has its own forum.

I just wanted people who visit this forumn to know about this software. That is all I am asking.

I am not affiliated with the software and I don't get any benefit if other come and visit the software's site...I am only posting this because I think some beginner Wiibrew programmers might be interested in it.

As to the Open Source comment...it would be nice, but Wii Game Studo isn't. But then again I don't beleive all the programs on the WiiBrew application site are Open Source. Plus the games made with Wii Game Studio can be open source.

I do appreciate that you guys have not deleted this post...so that other have a chance to know about this software. After that, if you decide to support it or not, that is your personal choice.

Thanks.

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SifJar

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TopGun96
No we should not support Any wii game studio. It is basically like stealing.

I disagree slightly. We should not support any Wii Game Studio, which charges money. If its free and open source, I see no problem.

Alright, fair enough. I agree with your point of view.

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LordAshes
If you note, the new post (i.e. the one above) only talks about the Free Version which can be used to make Full Working WiiBrew.

Oh please, the purpose of the free version is to get people to buy the full version.

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LordAshes
I only mentioned the upgrade in passing and I did not make any attempt to push it (i.e. an advertisement). This time, in my post, I did not menton any of the benefits.

Every page on the website pushes the upgrade onto it's viewers though...

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LordAshes
Also, I don't expect this forum to support this software...the software has its own forum.

I just wanted people who visit this forumn to know about this software. That is all I am asking.

Congratulations, you've succeeded in allowing me to let the forum know what I think about your software. Judging by all of the comments in this forum aside from your own, my thoughts are unanimous.

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LordAshes
I am not affiliated with the software and I don't get any benefit if other come and visit the software's site...I am only posting this because I think some beginner Wiibrew programmers might be interested in it.

Yes, and I've also gotten a handful of comments on our forum that are just ":)" and other emoticons in support of the product from users that have registered on the forum in the 24 hours. Suffice to say, I've deleted all of them as they would seem to be spam judging by the lack of words and the fact the users have been part of the forum for less than 24 hours.

I could suggest that this may be caused by user's of the product being asked by the developers to spread the word on our forums in an attempt to get more sales. Honestly, it wouldn't at all surprise me.

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LordAshes
As to the Open Source comment...it would be nice, but Wii Game Studo isn't. But then again I don't beleive all the programs on the WiiBrew application site are Open Source. Plus the games made with Wii Game Studio can be open source.

Reading ftw! The open source comment merely remarked that Wii Game Studio may be (and probably is) illegal to sell. It in no way stated anything derogatory towards closed source development.

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LordAshes
I do appreciate that you guys have not deleted this post...so that other have a chance to know about this software. After that, if you decide to support it or not, that is your personal choice..

It's in no way a personal choice of mine. Members of this forum feel strongly against supporting this product, so it is at the very least a community choice. I would even argue that it is simply the right thing to do irregardless of personal opinions since, as stated before, this product may very well be illegal, has a forum of our own, and is now connected to spam being placed on our own forum.

Why would this application be illegal?

The GPL does not prohibit people from selling products based on GPL code (*cough* Xandros/RHEL/any other commercial Linux distribution *cough*), and it is not clear to me that the WGS part of this product actually includes any GPL code. It appears that Wii Game Studio itself is code written by fatquack, which he has full control of. If it does use GPL code in the Wii Game Studio application binary itself, and fatquack does not make this clear and refuses to offer source, it is illegal. I think I will test this out to see if there are any obvious violations.

We could probably allow talking about it to some degree in Offtopic. LA's rather blatant advertising shouldn't be tolerated, though.

EDIT: Okay, here's what. This program includes unmodified GRRLIB (4.0.0) code, in source and object form. fatquack, you should mention that GRRLIB is under the MIT License as is required per that license, but that appears to be it.

EDIT2: Also, do something similar with the 7-Zip stuff. All you need to do is create a License.txt including the required stuff for the MIT License and GPL, respectively, and telling people where to get the source for 7-Zip. (seeing as it is unmodified).

Until this is rectified, we should treat it like we did SNEEK after the license violations were discovered.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2009 12:18PM by WikiFSX.

I'd like to point this out..

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LordAshes
P.S. No...I am not the author...but I am a member of the forumn and a user of the Pro version.

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LordAshes
I am not in any way affiliated with the tool except that I am a user.

It's made by FatQuack(?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2009 07:47AM by bg4545.

Yeah, I realized that. I went over to their forums and said something.

The author also stated here [forum.wiibrew.org] that his wii game studio is based upon game maker by yoyogames [www.yoyogames.com] Who knows what else he may be violating?

It's stylistically based on Game Maker. It looks nearly identical and acts similarly, but has little in common internally. (WGS is probably written in C# or VB.net, GM was written in Delphi, for example.)

I'd go as far as to call it a shanzhai version.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2009 03:34AM by WikiFSX.

Though I agree it's wonderful that someone made a program that allows programming "n00bz" (such as myself) to create some simple homebrew apps... I really don't think this particular program should be supported here unless all the proper licensing is taken care of. But even if that were to happen I feel it should be kept to the Off Topic section considering everybody here contributing to wiibrew is using C/C++ to develop their apps.

Basically... C/C++ doesn't really have any limitations aside from the people using it. And this Game Studio is just another cheap ripoff of Game Maker which can only do so many things (pac-man, 3rd-rate platformers etc...).

And Lord Ashes, you really do seem to be affiliated in some way. Why else would you push so hard to get support here of all places? Everyone knows if you're talking about Homebrew on the Wii you're talking about it on Wiibrew.

Bottom line is, I think it's great that there is something out there for beginners to get started, but it's aim is not to ultimately get people to move on to C/C++... it's more aimed at being tried, bought, and used indefinitely. And as inferior, and non-free software I think that's bullshit! There is no need to try to take a perfectly legal, free, and enjoyable experience and throw money into the situation. After you buy your Wii and your SD card, there is no reason you should NEED money to get a little enjoyment out of it while it lasts. And on top of it all (from what I understand of it anyway), it's not even legal to sell said application! I say get your scams outta here!

People here are trying to push the Homebrew scene forward, and I feel your application limits a users ability to do just that.

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Kammesennin
(pac-man, 3rd-rate platformers etc...)

You seriously underestimate Game Maker.

I'm sorry about the off-topicness of this, but you can make some 1st-rate platformers with GM, and some pretty good 3D games have even been shown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 12:50AM by WikiFSX.

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WikiFSX

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Kammesennin
(pac-man, 3rd-rate platformers etc...)

You seriously underestimate Game Maker.

I'm sorry about the off-topicness of this, but you can make some 1st-rate platformers with GM, and some pretty good 3D games have even been shown.

link? sorry i've not seen anything good come from it, but if you can prove me wrong, please do.

Yeah, in GMs defense, there are always a few rare creative users pushing the limits of it. These users usually do have programming experience to be able to do so though. The best example I can find on short notice is this: [www.yoyogames.com]

Edit: [www.yoyogames.com] - Another great one



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 02:45AM by Arikado.